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Climate Debate
Taken from my notes in 2010***

"Exelon, the nation's largest nuclear power company, stands to rake in roughly an extra $1 billion to $1.5 billion a year if the House climate change bill passes, according to the company's own estimates. The House is expected to vote on the bill on Friday. A memo produced for Exelon by Bernstein Research, and obtained by the Huffington Post, reports that Exelon CEO John Rowe recently told a gathering of investors and senior executives that the energy bill "will add $700 to $750 million to Exelon's annual revenues for every $10 per metric ton (MT) increase in the price of CO2 allowances." Prices will range between $15 and $18 per metric ton, the report estimates, "implying a positive earnings impact of $1 to $1.30 per share." Read the full memo."

Been watching the bait and switch ever since...

Show me the money.
Over 19 million Bangladeshi kids at front line of climate change disasters: UN report


As I understand it,  climate change drives the children to live in slums where they dont get good nutrition, resulting in thin or fat children who dont grow tall enough.

I suspect that will start to change now that they have a nuclear core catcher..
Threat of nuclear war is bad enough,  but climate change is worse.   Hes a nobel laureate

“The threat from a nuclear war remains… but we have something worse, which is a certainty. That is climate change,” 
“If we don’t act, we will perish. We must act for survival.”
a recent call by asset managers representing nearly half the world’s invested capital – some $34 trillion – for global leaders to put a meaningful price on carbon and phase out fossil fuel subsidies and thermal coal power worldwide.


Boy I bet they are thanking Greta now...$34 trillion in investments!

It would be great if they stopped using fossil fuels.   Lets see how that works out for our ally Saudi Arabia

"the Gulf nation is now angling to make one of the biggest investments in nuclear energy the world has seen.
Saudi Arabia plans to spend more than $80 billion to build 16 nuclear reactors over the next quarter century."

Its as simple as 1-2-3 and a promise!

 "the Trump administration needs to strike a nuclear cooperation pact, known as a “123 agreement,” with Saudi Arabia. In those agreements, countries make promises about how they will and won’t use the powerful nuclear equipment they could buy from the US in the future."    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/26/1714...-iran-deal

 Saudi Arabia new energy minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman has announced the kingdom plans to enrich uranium for its future civilian nuclear power program. The move could mark the start of a race for nuclear weapons in the Gulf


 Some scholars argue that Saudi Arabia is also largely governed by Islamic fundamentalist principles  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_fu...ist_states

If only the mainstream nuclear dosimetry believed in no safe dose,  the anti nuke movement could get some traction.....wait, the ICRP model IS a no safe dose model.....

Codes axiom;  the world is royally screwed
University dumps professor who found polar bears thriving despite climate change

Dr. Roy Spencer

"After viewing Gore’s most recent movie, An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power, and after reading the book version of the movie, I was more than a little astounded. The new movie and book are chock-full of bad science, bad policy, and factual errors."

I like it for the graph of ocean rise

Roy Spencer ties to oil companies like EXXON

Spencer rebuttal

oh brother....Spencer seems to be associated with The the Cornwall group which describes itself as "a coalition of clergy, theologians, religious leaders, scientists, academics, and policy experts committed to bringing a balanced Biblical view of stewardship to the critical issues of environment and development

Human CO2 Causes Sea Levels To Decline
The IPCC predicted that sea levels would rise to dangerous levels from CO2-induced climate change - satellite data for Hawaii and a new peer reviewed study
Nukes are no answer to climate change, by staup
Roy Spencer not the only christian  scientist.   Theres hundreds of 'em!

"We are both atmospheric scientists who study climate change, .... We are also evangelical Christians who believe that God created the world in which we live.

From the very beginning of the Bible, the goodness of God's Creation and God's love for people is front and center.
These convictions led us to join with 200 evangelical scientists in urging Congress to take action on climate change."


What if God had a change of heart and decided to favor a peaceful species with a bigger brain?  There are several to choose from.   Boy would we be in trouble....we have been murdering them all
The elite machine running the Greta Thunberg climate show
Vigilant Citizen
Tue, 15 Oct 2019 19:13 UTC
Quote:The rise of Greta to international prominence is a clear-cut case of "agenda-setting" which is defined as follows:

Agenda-setting is the creation of public awareness and concern of salient issues by the news media. As well, agenda-setting describes the way that media attempts to influence viewers, and establish a hierarchy of news prevalence. Two basic assumptions underlie most researches on agenda-setting:
1.the press and the media do not reflect reality; they filter and shape it;
2.media concentration on a few issues and subjects leads the public to perceive those issues as more important than other issues.

The agenda is not merely about climate change - it is about climate change through a very specific angle.

Panic and fear: Two words that lead to hasty and irrational responses based on negative emotions. And this fear and panic is being thoroughly ingrained into the youth, creating a generation that is convinced that the world is burning.

Greta is the face of a massive push across mass media and the education system to convince children that their "house in on fire". Since children absorb the information that is given to them without any kind of questioning, this push has created a new worrying phenomenon: Eco-anxiety.

Although Greta might be genuinely concerned about climate change, those behind her have a much darker agenda: To create a generation of children riddled with anxiety and depression, giving the elite carte blanche for drastic measures, ranging from tax hikes to the loss of personal freedoms.

Furthermore, this article was not about "denying" climate change or any other environmental issues. It is about how this issue is "sold" through a specific lens, one that is based on fear, panic, and urgency. Like any other important issue, pollution needs to be addressed in a rational matter, starting with the core sources of the problem. In the U.S., the sectors of transportation, industry and electric power account for over 80% of greenhouse gas emissions. In other words, elite-owned corporations are the main polluters in the world today. They are the ones emitting tons upon tons of carbon dioxide in the air while dumping tons upon tons of toxic waste in water streams. Instead of tackling these industries head-on, the elite parades around an autistic girl, films world leaders clapping at her speeches and encourages children to be afraid.

Why? Because what they are truly looking for is control and submission. And the best way to obtain control and submission is by creating a fearful and panicky population that begs for governments to fix its problems.

This agenda setting looks to be the same tool that can make issues disappear as well.  I think magicians called it perception management.  All the pollution is hiding behind the CO2 alone causes global warming message.  Nuclear is doing it by draping an Olympic banner over the Fuku radioactive contamination.  Fukushima Daiichi still leaks.  They say, don't be fearful, Japan doesn't mind sharing that radioactive matter with the rest of the world.  The radiation is perfectly safe.  They lie about the damage to future health.  They lie about the damage done to other life.  And you might even think that nuclear is clean enough to stop global warming if you listen to Greta.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
"agenda setting".....the machine.......cigarettes, chemical cleaners, pesticides, herbicides,...bleach, dryer sheets, teflon, polymers, pharmaceuticals....but don't you dare trust those plants you conspiracy nut job.

There is also the fact that reserves will be drying up and areas for exploitation less achievable....next power grab.

Hi Horse, wasn't my intent to make you edit my posts. My apologies I know you have plenty to do around here. Some days I struggle and just don't want to be anybody or anything...just to exist with the rest of existence.
Earthy, we know it's your prose, I want everyone else to know too. You deserve recognition for your brilliant pixels of light. I know about that struggle to face the world, for me it's still most days. We're constantly deluged with propaganda. They'd like everyone to just ignore the truth and go back to sleep. Just think how it must annoy them that some people still struggle each day to stay awake and to wake up others along the way.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
In my opinion, that article in common dreams unfairly conflated toxic pollutants and C02, perhaps implying that the co2 was killing children.  Im glad the air is cleaner though, and reduced Co2 is probably good too

"Just 6 months in, London's ULEZ has achieved a 4% reduction in CO2 emissions and a 3-9% reduction in traffic flows"

"taking action against toxic emissions and the climate crisis requires bravery from elected officials, and called on federal lawmakers to follow London's lead."

"I am determined to stop Londoners breathing air so filthy it is damaging our children's lungs and causing thousands of premature deaths,"
its not nice to commoditize mother nature

"The direct and indirect efforts of the World Bank and its off-spring, the Global Environment Facility (GEF), to become leading international agents of global environmental 'governance' and 'sustainable development' are described and analysed politically with reference to the development of an implementation regime of the Framework Convention on Climate Change (FCCC). The Bank/GEF are seen as engaging in a potentially dangerous experiment of 'global ecological modernisation', or industrial transformation, in 'emerging economies', an experiment legitimised by reference to the catastrophic threat of man-made 'global warming'. This threat is already being translated into political, commercial and bureaucratic benefits accruing to a small global elite. How was this achieved and what are the likely political implications?"

Climate change and the world bank: Opportunity for global governance?
Article in Energy & Environment
Greta turns down award and prize money..the Nordic region that is presenting it hasn't lived up to its reputation as environmental leaders said Greta.Kudos.


But she also said: "What we need is for our politicians and the people in power start to listen to the current, best available science."

Sorry Greta but "available" is a very slippery slope. .. best or not. Just sayn
U.S. wants to allow immigration to climate refugees.    Heck, I live in the hottest place in the states, I wonder if the Prince of Monaco will let me move in

“Implementing Geological Disposal” ? – NO THANKS!!!

...“Implementing Geological Disposal”- the push for geological disposal is all about the plan to build more nuclear reactors, more plutonium and tritium for the military and has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting future generations from radioactive wastes . Radioactive wastes have the potential to make this planet uninhabitable for eons to come and are the biggest threat to all life as we know it on planet earth. “Green” Sweden, the home of Greta is taking the lead in this diabolic project to dump nuclear wastes dangerously out of sight and out of mind in order to build more reactors.

At a recent meeting in Cockermouth, Allerdale Councillors were informed that government agencies have been buying up farm land – Ennerdale is a case in point! The Irish Sea was also mentioned as a possible “host.” Cumbria County Councillors have already voted unanimously to allow deep mining infrastructure to be embedded under the Irish Sea – I wonder if they realise they have also willingly ushered in “experts in geological disposal” with West Cumbria Mining? The below is from their website….
interview with Cory Morningstar, who wrote the insight into the Greta Thunberg phenomenon

"it is incredible, yet completely predictable, that to date, the Twitter account belonging to Miss Thunberg, with 5,102  “tweets” for action on climate (accessed September 7, 2019), has yet to create a single post highlighting the primary drivers of climate change: militarism, imperialism, colonialism and capitalism. ..."

“Citizen protests and legal actions against companies, governments and individuals will undoubtedly become an increasing leverage opportunity in support of this emergency approach and have already begun.”
— Club Of Rome “The Climate Emergency Plan”, launched with We Don’t Have Time and Global Utmaning, December, 2018


Cory Morningstar is quite a climate activist...emerging from the bowels of the non profit industrial complex


"The art of propaganda has been nothing less than brilliant. The deceit is so thick – you need a knife to cut through it. The corruption and greed so deep you need wings to stay above it and thigh high boots to wade through it. An alluring tapestry of luminous lies, interwoven with finely textured deception and silk-like corruption – as smooth and seductive as freshly churned butter. The pursuit of man’s mind by way of domination has been the greatest and most successful experiment – the manipulation of man’s mind has resulted in a massive erosion of empathy, which has allowed status quo “business as usual” to continue uninterrupted with little resistance. Capitalism effectively bred a contempt for our Earth that multiplied like a virus. The pollution of mind mutated into narcissism with inflicted self-hatred to form a suicidal Molotov cocktail. Those who have succumbed now hold hands in a circle and taunt the very planet that gives us life. The ugly side of humanity continues to violently pierce our Earth Mother with drills and slash her beautiful skin with razors. She is losing breath. She is dying. Yet, when she lashes back, it will be with an Armageddon deathblow against which our own actions will resemble childish prattle. And perhaps not until this time will global society finally recognize that our shared purpose was not to compete with one another and claim dominance and superiority over our Earth Mother – but rather our role was to protect, defend and nurture. The human family – under the arm of its EuroAmerican “big brother” – will have finally succeeded in conquering our shared planet, only to find that we have destroyed ourselves." – Cory Morningstar, excerpt from part II of the exposé, The 2º Death Dance – The 1º Cover-up
Climate scientist Mann of the Hockey Stick graph sues skeptic Tim Ball and loses.   Did Mann hide his data?

Apparently Ball has sued people himself.  Life isnt just black and white, good and evil. 
Maybe one can get a little sense of Balls personality here

In the little Ive read, he seems to be for non polluting practices,  maybe supportive of Trump, not supportive of the book Silent Spring (Rachel Carson).

Joseph Reynen weighs in.  Climate science is not what you could call simple.   
co2 not causing climate change

Comment;  it seems there is a political divide regarding opinions on climate

This is representative of a huge problem. Like the near total partisan divide in impeachment voting, it shows people arent thinking independently or open mindedly.  

What if the truth is different than either side of opinion?  

From June 30 through early July, distinguished members of Massachusetts grand juries endorsed indictments against several duly arrested citizens. The prisoners were handed over to be dealt with by a superior court  The next step, at the superior court level, was to summon witnesses before a grand jury. Much, but not all, of the evidence used against the accused, was spectral evidence.  

More than two hundred people were accused under articles and procedures of rule of law.  Thirty were found guilty, nineteen of whom were executed by hanging (fourteen women and five men). One other man, Giles Corey, was pressed to death for refusing to plead, and at least five people died in jail.  They were convicted for witchcraft. 

Prosecutions for the crime of witchcraft reached a highpoint from 1580 to 1630 during the Counter-Reformation and the European wars of religion, when an estimated 50,000  persons were burned at the stake, of which roughly 80% were women. The prevailing belief in New England culture was that women were inherently sinful and more susceptible to damnation than men were.Throughout their daily lives, Puritans, especially Puritan women, actively attempted to thwart attempts by the Devil to overtake them and their souls.

Meanwhile around that time a noted scientists scientist Charles Morton, wrote a surprisingly well-reasoned treatise claiming birds migrate to the moon and back every year.

I see both parties of the political system as forming a putrescent, large mass of  jello.  The mass leans one way or the other way while using the same bits of rhetoric and political, military force to control the people, all as the earth descends into a nightmare of grotesque proportions.  Is the intrinsic sensitivity and intelligence, due process or motive
of our current distinguished leaders any better than our ancestors in Massachusetts? 

Climate is more than Co2 and the threats to life on this planet are more than only climate...
Time  awards Greta Thunburg Person of the Year!


Lights, Camera, Greta! Teen Environmentalist's 'Viral' Rise Has Been A Documentary This Whole Time


You can smell the PR a thousand miles away.

climate profiteers

The head of the UN's climate change panel - Dr Rajendra Pachauri - is accused of making a fortune from his links with 'carbon trading' companies,

The head of the UN's climate change panel - Dr Rajendra Pachauri is no fossil fool

 He held the post from 2002 until his resignation in February 2015, due to sexual harassment allegations.

This is business as usual.    Follow the money
a video about profiting on saving nature.  It is well done, but one can skip to about 1:18  to catch the last bit.
Nature will be the financial worlds last bubble crash.

The U.S. Department of Defense is the largest institutional consumer of fossil fuels in the world and a key contributor to climate change.

Between 2001 and 2017, the years for which data is available since the beginning of the war on terrorism with the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, the U.S. military emitted 1.2 billion metric tons of greenhouse gases. More than 400 million metric tons of greenhouse gases are directly due to warrelated fuel consumption


The total known land area occupied by U.S. bases and facilities is 15,654 square miles -- bigger than D.C., Massachusetts, and New Jersey combined.

By 2033 the U.S. will be paying $59 billion a year to its veterans injured in the wars

In 2008, the Pentagon spent more money every five seconds in Iraq than the average American earned in a year

The amount the government has spent compensating radiation victims of nuclear testing ($1.5 billion)

The Pentagon spends more on war than all 50 states combined spend on health, education, welfare, and safety


The US military is a bigger polluter than more than 100 countries combined

Greta says nothing about the financial world or the military world. The financial world is salivating to profit on her message

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