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Climate Debate
"There is no civilized way to change the eventual result of unbridled capitalism."

This is why we must ask what exactly are we trying to save (and how are we trying to save it)

Many climate scenarios highlight a negative impact of climate change on life.  Lets be clear, it is one species, humans, that are having a negative impact on the rest of the living planet.  We are trying to save OUR WAY OF LIFE, not the earth.  
The human standard of living is over valued.  We spend 95% of our time indoors,  running the same narrow corridors, everyday, like rats.  People are proud of this megacity world,  as they beg for  jobs.   

Life in the Jurassic, the Cenozoic...it was booming.   Check the history of CO2  purple, and temperature, blue.  We arent hoping to save life, we are hoping to save a civilization which is on a head on collision with an abruptly catastrophic future.  It wont work. 

present time at the right.  

Around 180 million years ago, CO2 rocketed up from about 1,200 ppm to 2,500 ppm
There were bees and butterflies and fish and everything....living in a non polluted world.
[Image: Uncommon-Core-Climate-Geological-Timescale.jpg]
Jurassic butterfly   https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new...180958040/
[Image: kalligramma-cover-graphic-v1-2-17-15_6.png]

[Image: nikolai-litvinenko-scene-02.jpg?1529443100]
Doesn't take any kind of scientist to realize that somethings wrong. Very wrong.

Too many visible creatures have been decimated. Exponentially more invisible ones missing.

Record January, again, and summer in the northern hemisphere be rollin' in.

No matter who, or why, or how much$, things are changing and the results will be increasingly obvious...
We always ask what have we done because we don't know what we are doing.

pretty good looking, downloadable study here

The Relationship between Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Concentration and Global Temperature for the Last 425 Million Years

Discussion and Conclusions
The principal findings of this study are that neither the atmospheric concentration of CO2 nor
ΔRFCO2 is correlated with T over most of the ancient (Phanerozoic) climate. Over all major climate
transitions of the Phanerozoic Eon, about three-quarters of 136 correlation coefficients computed
here between T and atmospheric CO2 concentration, and between T and ΔRFCO2, are non-discernible,
and about half of the discernible correlations are negative. 

Correlation does not imply causality, but
the absence of correlation proves conclusively the absence of causality [63]. The finding that
atmospheric CO2 concentration and ΔRFCO2 are generally uncorrelated with T, therefore, implies
either that neither variable exerted significant causal influence on T during the Phanerozoic Eon or
that the underlying proxy databases do not accurately reflect the variables evaluated.
The present findings corroborate the earlier conclusion based on study of the Paleozoic climate
that “global climate may be independent of variations in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration.” [64] (p.
198). The present study shows further, however, that past atmospheric CO2 concentration oscillates
on a cycle of 15–20 My and an amplitude of a few hundred to several hundreds of ppmv. A second
longer cycle oscillates at 60–70 My. As discussed below, the peaks of the ~15 My cycles align closely
with the times of identified mass extinctions during the Phanerozoic Eon, inviting further research
on the relationship between atmospheric CO2 concentration and mass extinctions during the
[Image: Temperature-T-and-atmospheric-carbon-dio...ng-the.png]
There is little doubt that mankind is burning fossil fuels and contributing to the CO2 and that it is rising. But there also seems to be a huge impact from man on the biosphere. Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. But coal and other industrial activities put out huge amounts of toxic pollutants. Mercury, radionuclides, PCBs, lead, particulates, plastics, cadmium, insecticides, and its just a huge list. Considering the loss of whales, which fertilize plankton, the tree cutting, and all of these pollutants, how does this affect the production and uptake of Co2? And if these toxins create a dying garbage dump of a planet, where does the CO2 issue stand in importance?"

" The Global warming crowd seldom mention that Earth is at the end of an interglacial. Solar output and the Earth's orbit is thought to govern periods of glaciations and interglacial periods. "

" The news headlines always include dire predictions of CO2 caused cataclysm. Why dont we hear about population driven cataclysm? Glyphosate, heavy metal, nuclear, tree cutting, sea exploitation, international shipping, cattle ranching caused cataclysm? Reducing carbon dioxide output is not going to save life raft earth."

" Many climate scenarios highlight a negative impact of climate change on life. Lets be clear, it is one species, humans, that are having a negative impact on the rest of the living planet. We are trying to save OUR WAY OF LIFE, not the earth.  
The human standard of living is over valued. We spend 95% of our time indoors, running the same narrow corridors, everyday, like rats. People are proud of this megacity world, as they beg for jobs. "

" Exactly, exponential growth, diminishing resources"

All of what everyone has noticed/observed so far applies..everything is interconnected..everything influences everything..every disbalance influences all interconnected balances and the efficiency of their interactions on the endresults..also a fine-tuned balance back in the day's when the Planet was blossoming aka life flourishing.. even man-made CO2 and its accompanying pollutions lol.. 
But the list of our malevolent deeds is probably as infinite as there are combinations in the matrix.. 

Like how we influenced the natural workings/interactions of all planetary and matter and living entities electro-magnetic properties..directly and by relocating underground waterbody's etc.. dunno..

"We are trying to save OUR WAY OF LIFE, not the earth." 

Sooo, it seems we must deduct that TPTB foresaw the coming combined eco-collapse, including the climate since the Planet can no longer adapt to cosmic dynamics or its own oversaturation with poisson to filter ratio.. and the sudden awareness it would force shockwaving Tru the taxpaying caddle/cannon fodder and decided it was in their best interest to put it all under one hood.. 
Easier to control and still make money.. 

Gore and the billionaire controlled/OWNED media appointed to perform the trick..? 

It sure is looking more plausible everyday.. 

No matter who, or why, or how much$, things are changing and the results will be increasingly obvious..."

I feel the same way...and IMHO, Earth doessent give a hoot under what umbrella bipedal finally start caring a bit..

I'm just trying to make sure nuclear is and stay's" on the menu"...of imminent extinction drivers..
"I feel the same way...and IMHO, Earth doessent give a hoot under what umbrella bipedal finally start caring a bit.."

There was a study about how much people cared for the earth.  Not surprisingly, the people in cities didnt care as much as the people living close to nature.  Mankind moves toward cities and mega cities.  So the vector is not in the right direction.  If they hear about climate change, they worry about humans,  their future, not natures future.  Our world outlook is molded by the media more than we can imagine.

That molded view is aimed at capitalist profits, in the guise of protecting against climate.  CO2 is the exclusive focus.  As we see in those studies above, it may not even be a strong correllary to climate, and certainly not to life.

There is an idea that oil will run out.  So think of the time spans involved here.  Solar and wind are becoming the most cost effective energy sources and left to market forces would become the predominant energy source within say 20 or 30 years.   We would exhaust oil reserves within at least some hundreds of years.  So that particular source of future catastrophe would play out, on its own.   So it appears that the money people want to leverage this opportunity for profit.

IF they really cared about the planet,  the narrative would be different.  They can hardly care about nature because they live in fine locations with beautiful scenery, or simply love big city life.  They are removed, detached from natures mysterious threads of energy, life energy...  it doesnt mean anything to them

They wouldnt be posing nuclear as the solution to climate which, at this point, is one of the smaller problems we face on space ship earth.  They also pose 5g and super surveillance...the so called smart city and internet of things as a solution.  This is, in my opinion, pure Orwellian dystopia and anti nature

They love Greta because she moves the public to spend.  But the source of wealth comes from nature.  No nature, no wealth...so this wont work out for anybody in the long run
The elite caring..ofcourse not Code, but the children who réalisé their growing up to live in a toxic raging prisonplanet/ex-paradise do..

And they are skillfully united by the perpetrators of the omnicide to focus mostly on one thing..CO2..

So much of the omnicidal slaughter the elite and MIC is still profiting from stay's out of the emergency attention span.. 

Mass die-offs after fuku/other pollution etc..warm blob of this and that..

We are not disagreeing..
It is amazingly absurd, and of course there's an app for that...

Experiments in setting individuals a carbon allowance have been trialled from Finland to Australia, and some have proved popular. But can carbon rationing ever be fair?

Quote:Once a day, Katja Suhonen opens her phone to check on her carbon footprint. Every journey she makes in her home city of Lahti, a city in the south of Finland, is studied by an experimental app called CitiCap and the carbon impact of her travel choices deducted from a weekly budget.

“I have mainly travelled around by bike, public transport and walking before even using CitiCap, so it hasn’t really changed my daily routine,” says Suhonen, an early adopter of the voluntary monitoring scheme. “However, now I try to avoid private car even more than before.” If she has any credits left by the end of the week, she can exchange them for gifts like coffee or a free bike tune-up in participating businesses. Her journeys are automatically tracked by the app, and she only needs to manually input details such as how many passengers she is with if she is travelling by car.


So megacities it is, but there are some problems with mans megacities...

Quote:Researchers Analyze Nasty Species of Bacteria That Has Colonized Space Station’s Water Dispenser

Two particularly tenacious species of bacteria have colonized the potable water dispenser aboard the International Space Station (ISS), but a new study suggests that they are no more dangerous than closely related strains on Earth. Aubrie O’Rourke of the J. Craig Venter Institute and colleagues report these findings in a new paper published February 19, 2020 in the open-access journal PLOS ONE.


Without all of Nature along, empty megacities will crumble to dust...
The bankers aren't worried enough about climate change.  That is, until it hits the bottom line.  

Climate crisis could cause economic recession ‘like we’ve never seen before’, study warns
Risks of increasingly unpredictable weather being ignored by some financial markets, US research says
Harry Cockburn
The Independent
Tue, 18 Feb 2020 20:23 UTC

Quote:The huge strain caused by the climate crisis could cause an economic recession “the likes of which we’ve never seen before,” a US study has warned.

The increase in prevalence of extreme weather, bringing deadly heatwaves, more severe storms, and causing wildfires and floods, is insufficiently accounted for in financial markets, raising the possibility of a sudden correction when serious problems arise, according to new research from University of California.

“If the market doesn’t do a better job of accounting for climate, we could have a recession – the likes of which we’ve never seen before,” said Paul Griffin, an accounting professor at the UC Davis Graduate School of Management.

We've been in recession since the 2008 banking crisis.  Not the bankers, of course, they were bailed out.  The risk was spread to the working economy and that shows no signs of any recovery.  Still it's nice to know how much they care about the rest of the world.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
Planetary Health and Regeneration

"Why l firmly believe we are capable of redesigning humanity’s impact on Earth from being destructive to being regenerative"

the worst thing about the climate debate, socially speaking, is the political polarization. 

Climate crisis more politically polarizing than abortion for US voters, study finds

 If CO2 is ever conclusively proven to be causing planetary catastrophe  within decades then the liberal, democratic faction will gain power, with their smug self righteous, human oriented, narrow minded vision of what constitutes righteousness.

   On the other hand, if CO2 is found to not be the main driver of doom,  then the conservative republican sector will be full of pompous self righteous vainglory, with their human oriented, narrow minded vision of what constitutes righteousness.  

And while the highly divided sides view the other with contempt,  both fail to realize their visions of righteousness differ by a small degree
true cause of global warming discovered

[Image: us_post_causes_global_warming.gif]
According to a study published by Marine Policy, the world’s shark population is experiencing a significant decline with perhaps 100 million or more sharks being lost every year. This time it is the turn of the top predators of Australia’s east coast, whose numbers have dropped straight down alarmingly in the last half a century.

In a new study, it has shown that species like hammerheads, great whites and tiger sharks that live in the waters off the coast of Queensland have dropped by as much as 92 percent in just 50 years


We know that over fishing, bycatch and shark fin soup is responsible for the decline...but what is causing the sharks to decline, thats the question...

I bet you anything shark deaths are definately maybe possibly due now or in the future to climate change

Climate change is a giant question mark for the future of sharks

climate change is causing sharks to attack more

on the other hand, maybe climate change is behind the decrease in shark attacks
Could climate change be behind fewer shark attacks worldwide?

No,  make that climate causes more shark attacks.  Why?  More beach goers in Florida...cause, you know, the climate
How Climate Change Is Fueling a Rise in Shark Attacks
Theres no evidence of a reason, but the reason is clear,  climate is causing less sharks, more, and fewer shark attacks as sharks become smaller, larger and right handed. Im not kidding.

"The study, brought out by the Florida Museum of Natural History, did not pin down any one reason for the drop in numbers. It, however, raised concerns: “The somber truth is that most of the world’s shark populations are in decline, or exist at greatly reduced levels, as a consequence of overfishing and habitat loss.”"
No wonder Greta travels the world hobnobbing with the rich and influential to combat climate change.  EVERY bad thing is caused by it.

Men will have lower sperm count but will rape women more because of climachange.  Sharks will also attack more and we will see a reduction in jobs and intelligence while infections will increase.  The weather will get dryer, wetter, warmer, sometimes cooler and horrific weather events will increase, even as they remain no worse than historical rates.  Plant life will increase as it is decimated and basically its worse than nuclear war.  So yeah,...that dripping faucet?  Probably the washer dried out due to climate change, and now look at you...too stupid to be able to change it because of low IQ...

Infection, low IQ among health impacts caused by climate change

As climate change worsens, growing heat stress on workers in agriculture and other sectors will cause a productivity loss equal to 80 million full-time jobs over the next decade, the UN warned Monday

There is no data for this, but climate change will be worse for sexual abuse and exploitation of women,  low sperm count, extinction of species
Climate change might be a greater threat to women, but data absent
"Natural disasters, which are expected to increase due to climate change, also render women and girls vulnerable to sexual abuse and exploitation, particularly in contexts of pre-existing economically..."
Coronavirus outbreak slashes China carbon emissions: study | Relaxnews

Unusual Arctic warming explained by overlooked greenhouse gases
By Rodrigo Pérez Ortega Jan. 21, 2020

The same gases that caused holes in Earth’s ozone layer in the past century are responsible for the rapid warming of the Arctic as well, according to a new study published in Nature. Scientists looked at the effect of these gases in climate simulations between 1955 and 2005. They found that the gases accounted for up to half of the warming and sea-ice loss of the Arctic during that period, Nature reports. These so-called ozone-depleting substances (ODSs) are considered potent greenhouse gases and include organic chlorine and bromine compounds such as chlorofluorocarbons


One interpretation is that the scientific consensus that Co2 is the cause of arctic warming was half wrong.
Ahhh! Nothing like the smell of coffee and sulpher dioxide in the morning! Life is great and nothing is obviously worse off.

The right dose of geoengineering could reduce climate change risks, study says

 a new study by UCL and Harvard researchers suggest that even a crude method like injecting sulphur dioxide in the stratosphere could reduce many important climate hazards without making any region obviously worse off.
"I see no possibility of a technical “miracle” to fix global warming; something like an anti-global-warming planetary vaccine, making civilization safe to continue with capitalism." 

Global Warming and Ocean Acidification Accelerate - CounterPunch.org


The first undeniable climate change deaths: Japan’s 2018 heat wave.

How humans disrupted a cycle essential to all life


Attached Files Image(s)
I take it that human population reduction is the solution to human disruption?

I noticed VOX seemed to be part of the narrative that drives non valid and totalitarian lockdown methods during covid.

It appears to my unqualified self that Dr Correa is one of the more brilliant scientists of today.  He has some publications on this subject. You can tell just from the titles what his view is on climate science


"Without a comprehensive, systematic and interconnected understanding of the nonlinear system formed by the atmosphere, the oceans, the land mass and the biosphere, dogmas like those of a man-made, CO2-mediated global warming can only be pushed forward as part of a political and media-driven agenda. With a functional, comprehensive understanding, these dogmas are shown to be worth no more than a child's chimeras. If there were really a majority consensus that global warming is real and man-made, then one would have to conclude that it was the consensus of a majority of infantilized adults - not scientists capable of thinking by themselves and applying the scientific method, but mass-conditioned zombies vying for technobureaucratic jobs. 
So, one must ask - what is it that these pseudo-scientists are hiding when they sell their globally warmed sausages or their smelly fish? 
They are hiding the real climatological change now under way: the increase in aerosol particulates, including the sulphur and nitrous oxides from coal burning (sources of so-called acid rain), and the aromatic or cyclical particulates of diesel, gas and oil burning, which engage a new atmospheric chemistry whose end products are low-level concentrations of ozone and the trapping of water vapor and carbon monoxide near the ground. "

"The last underpinning of the dogma of global warming is one that its defenders seldom put forth, but that is contained in the current policy statement of the American Meteorological Society - that "global warming" does not necessarily mean warming at all... but "all the climate and environmental effects arising from natural climate variability (!!) as well as from anthropogenic changes in atmospheric composition and land use". With this ridiculous definition, global warming could literally mean anything and everything, including the authors' model of increasing free-radical particulates and their ambipolar radiative properties.  Acid rain would be "global warming", even global cooling could be global warming... Why not? The magik of global capitalism, and the magik of Science, with its 262 affiliated societies and academies of science - the largest peer-reviewed journal in Die Welt.  Little wonder, then, that the informed public does not give a hoot about science - about the science of the establishment, mainstream science, Official Science. And no wonder, too, that so many official and officiating scientists and science journalists do not mind to bend the truth to eke out a living. They know that Official Science is like the media - it's all about catchy shades of the false, distortion of facts, the infilling of data - about packaging. About the spectacle of the Big Warming, the succession of fads and their impoverished cycles.  They have found an outlet for their mediocre creativity, and they are being paid to 'express themselves'. It is the circus of Big Science; it is Knowledge Warfare, the rule of the mediocracy. It is Kyoto as merchandise, basic science as the target to mow down, and any real technological solution to the global energy crisis as the casualty. And 'they' have 'peer-review' to prove that they are right, that they are... scientific."
Ask 'em about the Grand Solar Minimum that's just started. The thinning protection of our magnetosphere to space weather. The Global warming science only seeks to shut down the fossil fuel industry. Getting rid of smog would be healthy but look at man run from nature's smoke and wildfires. Extremes in weather, from too hot to too cold, dry to drenched. Record hurricane season. Man's science is puny in the face of the real world.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."

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