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Is it okay if I link to a marijuana article where I explain some things?
#1
I see a LOT of misinformation and crap related to marijuana articles (I despise the marijuana industry, aside from the medical industry, btw).

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-01-m...blems.html

So I ranted quite a bit, without the usual expletives. Did I do okay (aside from typing errors)?

I know a fair bit about marijuana, like, HSO sent me some of their seeds (some of their strongest and most popular stuff) and considering, these naturalized hybrids here in africa are just better. I mean, people have told me "I can't smoke your weed, it's too strong" "it's the best weed in the world", etc. And that's from like, random near "worthless" bagseeds and such.

But people like their overpriced inbred clone stuff, right? Which is why I give weed away to like, hobos and such and keep on insulting people who try to get me to sell weed.
 
#2
O, it reads easier without the expletives and your arguments are clearer.  

Hemp was such a valuable product that landowners in the American colony were required to grow it to provide rope for the economy and the Navy.  It was made illegal in the early 20th century so as not to compete with wood pulp paper that Hearst wanted for newspapers (he had purchased a South American forest) and of course to incarcerate minority groups that used the weed for entertainment or self medication.  The only problem with it was industry couldn't own it or patent it.  Marijuana grew everywhere and the War on Drugs didn't stop people from using it.  Its medicinal value was known early on but the health benefits weren't explored, mostly because industry couldn't patent it or own it.  When politicians realized how much money was in the pot, they taxed it and started making it legal again.  I live in Colorado, USA where marijuana is legal for medicinal and recreational use so I can walk into a dispensary and purchase Indica and Sativa varieties, CBD oil and edibles.   Marijuana possession is still a Federal crime but they are allowing state run operations.  States are taxing it to the max and making killer profits off it and don't really care why people smoke pot or eat it.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
#3
Does hemp have the ability to uptake plutonium and potentially clean contaminated soil?

PDF of the study.

REPORT FOR CONSULTING SERVICES
FOR HANSEN RODDENBERRY CATALYST GRANT AWARD
HEMP UPTAKE OF PLUTONIUM STUDY
Michael E. Ketterer, Ph.D.
January 14, 2020
http://rockyflatsdownwinders.com/wp-cont...an2020.pdf

Quote:* Plutonium is detected in the majority of the hemp plant samples, at a detection limit of 0.05
Bq/kg 239+240Pu.
* The “control” group of samples had the greatest frequency of “not detected” results.
However, one of the hemp samples from plant material grown in the “control” soil exhibited
relatively high 239+240Pu activity (Cherry strain, Plant 16, 0.466 Bq/kg).
* Nearly all of the samples of plant material grown in Rocky Flats-contaminated soils exhibited
detectable 239+240Pu, and the three highest plant 239+240Pu activities were found therein.
* The plutonium measured in the plant samples is of Rocky Flats origin, based upon a
240Pu/239Pu atom ratio that is ~ 0.05-0.06, characteristic of weapons-grade Pu.
* The results appear to suggest that Pu from the soils is being uptaken into the plants, although
the findings of a high 239+240Pu activity in one of the “control” soils is difficult to conflate with
soil plant uptake, and may stem from external contamination.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
#4
since CafeRadLab is mainly about nuclear related stuff, how do we justify or relate the drug issues to nuclear?   
I did write some material on psychedelics, and I do find a relevance of sorts, mainly the attitudes of people in power positions, the collusion of state and corporatism,  the subversion of the public and nature.

If CafeRadLab is seen as espousing the use of illegal drugs, that would  be counterproductive.

But criminalization of natures bounty can be a take off point for nuclear discussion.

Studies show that the most harmful drugs are legal, where the least harmful are illegal.   How did it turn out to be policy, almost global policy that the most harmful things are legal and the least harmful, even beneficial things are illegal?  Should it be legal or illegal for corporations to use the most poisonous things,....nuclear fuel and its breakdown products...which are now literally everywhere except in safe storage....while useful and non toxic natural herbs are schedule one felonies?

Why indeed does the public not only put up with this bizarre state of affairs but even celebrate it?   I say it has a lot to do with a species centric megalomania, a control trip fairly easy to trace to basic animal drives, and a social dynamic similar to the Berne -Karpman drama triangle, as I discuss in the 'sociological roots of nukism'  thread.

Studies reveal that 20 to 40 percent of U.S. citizens use marijuana.  They are therefor criminals.  But the other 60 to 80 percent are also breaking laws every day.   The highly praised system has made a nation of criminals. And it also shows in our incarceration...the highest in the world.   This is, by the way, one reason the surveillance state is a serious concern.   If the state decides it doesnt like you...for whatever reason....perhaps you are against never ending wars, or the political system...then you can be easily taken out.  You ARE, and make no mistake about it....a criminal.   

Heres a little extra to add to it;   It is illegal to do anything that involves criminal activity....so for example if you rent a space to a party that sells marijuana, like a dispensary....then you are also a criminal under federal law, despite state law.   And heres the thing;   The feds impose taxes, and steep ones on medical marijuana.  This makes them complicit in the sales of criminal drugs.   They want their cut....of a trade they make ilegal.     So get out there, wave your flag and vote for your side....you criminals
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#5
If you want peace, you are an enemy of the state.  And the state has assured that you are criminal.  Everyone is.

The John 'give peace a chance' Lennon FBI files

The FBI assembled around 300 pages of files on John Lennon in 1971-72, part of President Nixon's effort to deport Lennon to silence him as a critic of the war in Vietnam.


"ARREST IF AT ALL POSSIBLE"
Acting FBI Director Gray received an airtel (HQ-24) from the New York FBI office, dated July 27, suggesting that it be "emphasized" to "local Law Enforcement Agencies" in Miami that Lennon should be "arrested if at all possible on possession of narcotics charge."

http://www.lennonfbifiles.com/documentaries.html


Everyone Is a Criminal: On the Over-policing of America
https://www.thenation.com/article/everyo...g-america/
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#6
DOCUMENTS SHOW CIA AND FBI SPIED ON JOHN  LENNON    --all you need is love--   vs  --all you need is total dominance--

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/...03620003-6

Now the government has more on you than Lennon....and you (average citizen) are OK with it.  Go figure


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_go...ted_States

https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-secur...et-privacy
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#7
Oh, one of the best examples of the effect of marijuana (from what I've read) is probably the case of a cannibalistic, warlike african tribe completely changing to not being cannibals and not being warlike, even their "punishments" were very mild by modern standards.

"The transition from feud to friendship was only one of the changes initiated by the hemp cult. An entire religion came into being based onriamba, the Bashilange word for cannabis, which became the symbol of peace, camaraderie, magic, and protection. Tribesmen were no longer permitted to carry weapons in their villages, they called each other friend, and they greeted one another with the word moyo, meaning "life" and "health". Although formerly cannibals, they abjured their previous custom of eating the bodies of their captured enemies. "

Sure, they still had failings, but if you don't consider that profoundly positive, there's something broken about your very being... and some people insist on demonizing marijuana? You can demonize people, you can demonize institutions, you can demonize cults but don't try and demonize my shit. I'll smack you back into the stoned age and you won't like the karmic load.

Anyway, this is what I'm doing to "mitigate climate change" (I can't stand the vast majority of the climate scientology cultists' crap and suggestions). Like, not growing them even remotely ideally, but other than water I don't buy anything to grow them, around 1.5-2.0m plants on average (most of them in those black 20l plastic pots, with a crap height to width ratio, the pots should should be wider, relatively, but hey, that was basically my only option):
https://imgur.com/a/grPzXUi

If laws here weren't so stupid, I'd freely give away much more than I currently can.

Have a nice day, here's a nice album imo (it's not rap or metal, btw, though it is a metal band): https://youtu.be/_BzNwC_EOzk. I'm gonna go smoke some weed, drink some semi-fermented maize/sorghum (which doubles as food, only takes a day to ferment to acceptable levels and also avoids the alcohol taxation. Costs me $0.65 for ~3-5L of "beer/food" a day).
 
#8
South Africa has more or less legalized personal use of marijuana.  You can grow it.  Not so in the U.S.

The U.S. is a land of criminals.  It must be 'crime central',  based on the criminal record.  

 Every year, over 600,000 people go to prison and people go to jail 10.6 million times each year.  Jail churn is particularly high because most people in jails have not been convicted.  

by the FBI’s standard, 73.5 million people in the United States had a criminal record 

Regardless of race or gender, researchers estimate that by age 23 nearly one in three Americans will have been arrested.

If all arrested Americans were a nation, they would be the world’s 18th largest. Larger than Canada. Larger than France. More than three times the size of Australia.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/a...e-diplomas

Rule of law is not effective.  And it does not coincide with danger or ethics in many cases.  

Globally, drug use is not distributed evenly and is not simply related to drug policy, since countries with stringent user-level illegal drug policies did not have lower levels of use than countries with liberal ones
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/a...ed.0050141

 The global distribution of drug use is unevenly distributed with the US having the highest levels of both legal and illegal drug use among all countries surveyed


Despite tough anti-drug laws, a new survey shows the U.S. has the highest level of illegal drug use in the world.

The World Health Organization's survey of legal and illegal drug use in 17 countries, including the Netherlands and other countries with less stringent drug laws, shows Americans report the highest level of cocaine and marijuana use.

 the U.S. also had the highest rate of use at 42.4%
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-leads-th...-drug-use/

One in three people having a criminal record seems like a lot, but actually everyone is a criminal.  The next generation of surveillance will compile a list of all the crimes people are committing. 

If you reside in America and it is dinnertime, you have almost certainly broken the law. In his book Three Felonies a Day, civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate estimates that the average person unknowingly breaks at least three federal criminal laws every day. This toll does not count an avalanche of other laws

one adult in 31 is under "correctional" supervision. As a proportion of its total population, America incarcerates five times more people than Britain, nine times more than Germany and 12 times more than Japan.

By contrast, in 1970, less than one in 400 Americans was incarcerated

Why are you, as an average person and daily felon, more vulnerable to arrest than at any other time?

"There is a simple answer but no single explanation as to how the situation arose or why it continues to accelerate out of control. The answer: a constant flood of new and broadly interpreted laws are criminalizing entire categories of daily life while, at the same time, the standards required for arrest and conviction have been severely diluted. The result is that far too many people are arrested and imprisoned for acts that should not be viewed as criminal at all or should receive minimal punishment."

'In some cases, the violated laws are so obscure, vague, or complicated in language that even the police are ignorant of them. In other cases, outright innocence is not sufficient to escape the brutality of detention'

"And so you and your children are likely to continue living under the constant threat of arrest by an arbitrary power against whom you either have no defense or a defense that could be ruinous. You will continue to live in a police state."

https://mises.org/library/decriminalize-average-man

The rule of law....here a few things that have made you a criminal

"Happy Birthday to You" is the most recognized song in the English language, according to Guinness World Records, but until 2016, it was illegal for you to sing it

Its criminal if you carry "broad-tipped indelible markers" on your person

If you enjoy writing genre fiction or blog posts that could unsettle readers, you could potentially be in violation of laws in some states that prohibit the writing of "disturbing material."

Driving Under  the Speed Limit

Rolling Through a Stop Sign on Your Bike

simply having a drink in your hand is against the law in most of the country.

 collecting rainwater is actually illegal in some states.


A lot of people have gone to jail for marijuana.  But it wasnt always considered evil.  The government decides what is evil, and the people believe it, and this becomes infused into the vast subconscious attitudes of the public.  Part of the normalcy bias they are blind to.

Hemp For Victory (1942)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3rolyiTPr0
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#9
Marijuana was used by the indigenous people in South Africa before colonization. Then the capitalists came.  The Dutch East India Company attempted to establish a monopoly on its sale, and to that end prohibited cultivation of the plant by Cape settlers from 1680.

 The Dutch East India Company, which had a value of $7.9 trillion in today's dollars, was the corporation which set the standards for the capitalist/corporate systems in use today.  

Capitalist motives are arguably behind the destruction of indigenous peoples and the biosphere at large.  Yet in the mind of the western public, capitalism is linked with the ideas of freedom   liberty and democracy.   

The U.S. Has Been At War 222 Out of 239 Years.  Proudly enforcing peace and capitalism by war and terror.  They are very patriotic about it.
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#10
Well that's a lot of info about just how broken modern societies are.

I've been trying to explain to people, the concept of "mind-altering" drugs is the most stupid thing I've heard about, other than say, using antibiotics as preventative measures (people actually do that, and it gets promoted in some parts of the medical industry). Every single aspect of the environment is mind-altering, how is that difficult to understand? It's almost as stupid as the idea of "weeds", seriously, has anyone even looked at the definition of weeds? Wtf does that mine, undesireable according to who? Nature wanted it there, maybe nature finds you undesireable, which is why you're a politician or a banker now, learning irrelevant obsoleted garbage.

I love that about people, I must admit. "We have this great environment, grants and sustains everything we think we have. So, what we're gonna do is, take that, and build a cave. And in that cave, with disregard for resources and habitat we no longer have, we're gonna sit and think about making larger numbers. And that's how we'll buy eternity, with "the economy"".

Regarding these supposed leaders, it's as Twain suggested, congresskin are much like fleas, though somewhat inferior.
But the question is, would a dog let the fleas in its house or would it shake them off, as Carlin suggested?

Don't you find it peculiar about the prophecies and such about them (say trump and simpsons)? I mean, just imagine they are in those positions, as they are puppets (which we know), but rather, more than puppets, they are drone, to be examples of what exactly to avoid.

I have to tell you though, I don't believe in any version of socialism or communism I've heard of, since as you know, there's no significant difference between state capitalism and capitalist state. If people could figure out simpler egalitarianism, maybe I wouldn't have to sink this ship.
 
#11
Let me put it this way about mind-altering drugs. If you have excessive glutamate, that has rather significant neural effects. That means, basically every shot of MSG you take reduces ATP functionality, causes excitotoxicity and promotes neurodegenerative disease. Is that mind-altering, would you say? Oh, you can't tell because you forgot you have epilepsy because of the alzheimers?

Even aside from that, eat too much lettuce and you'll trip balls.

Opioid-related gifts from pharma companies linked to physician prescribing by specialty:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-10-o...inked.html

Suppose you were a drug dealer, and suppose you were a psychiatrist, but also an idiot (though at least, babylonian whores are cheap these days, it would appear)...

Reminds me about a joke of a doctor, a psychologist and a psychiatrist. Though I can't quite recall.

Anyway, a scientist tells me "I  found dark matter", after he was bad at math, I believe him.
An abrahamic replies "I know fraud TOO!".
A psychiatrist replies "That'd be Freud".

Jung looks at Freud and Freud loses his shit.

Or rather, while I have like 600k tons of uranium around me, media is freaking out over some engineered/staged virus "epidemic" in china, involving like 17 deaths (possibly, max, though, coz I mean you can't attribute something like chemical toxicity as being a factor in a weakened immune system, causing significant microbial propagation) out of 500 cases (again, supposedly), I'm not even slightly concerned about either of those. See, currently I'm watching a race between meningitis and myocardial infarction. It's quite exciting!
 
#12
One benefit of taking a mind altering substance that is sometimes mentioned, is that the new perspective gained allowed the person to see that their 'normal'  mind state was not really 'sober'.   They realized that the mental state they took for granted as being 'right',  'normal'  etc  was in fact 'tripped out',  'unconscious' of many things, often unsympathetic and insensitive.   They felt that gaining insight and empathy was sobering.  

These insightful mind altering experiences lead to less alcohol and smoking addictions, opioid addictions, reduce depression, and more. 


A newly published study examining the use of psychedelics in non-clinical settings to treat alcoholism is suggesting a great number of individuals see a reduction in problematic alcohol consumption following strong doses of LSD or psilocybin. The research supplements a compelling body of evidence revealing the intriguing anti-addiction potential of classic psychedelics, and rekindles interest in a strong vein of research from the 1950s and 1960s.

"Global connectivity between brain structures and functional networks is increased by LSD, and the strength of these alterations are positively correlated with the sense of ego-dissolution; a sense of the self as not separate from others, or even as a distinct individual bound by time and space"

These radical experiential insights lead to less destructive and more positive personal and social behaviors, as evidenced in clinical experience and studies.

How 'magic mushroom' chemical could free the mind of depression, addictions
https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/health/ma...epression/

"People try and run away from things and to forget, but with psychedelic drugs they're forced to confront and really look at themselves,"


LSD helps to treat alcoholism
Retrospective analysis shows hallucinogenic drug helped problem drinkers.
https://www.nature.com/news/lsd-helps-to...sm-1.10200

"Roland Griffiths, a behavioural biologist at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, Maryland, is investigating the influence of psilocybin on smoking cessation, and says that psychedelics sometimes give rise to distinctive, insightful experiences that can produce enduring positive changes in attitude, mood and behaviour."

Poisoning oneself and others becomes more unthinkable with even one experience of a psychedelic, which are gaining the reputation of being highly therapeutic, yet which are still considered criminal by the government.
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#13
"Roland Griffiths, a behavioural biologist at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, Maryland, is investigating the influence of psilocybin on smoking cessation, and says that psychedelics sometimes give rise to distinctive, insightful experiences that can produce enduring positive changes in attitude, mood and behaviour."

According to who? An institutionalized guy replacing one drug for another, which was engineered. Very sober. Is it okay to not be depressed, microdosing psilocybin or LSD for industry's gain?

Very simple question, since it's judgment. Tell me, do you think that guy is more worthy than me (I don't believe in equality, as I don't believe in homogeneity)?

https://phys.org/news/2019-12-alcohol-to...ction.html

I'll keep chugging the Juche. Not that I can type for shit.

"Poisoning oneself and others becomes more unthinkable with even one experience of a psychedelic, which are gaining the reputation of being highly therapeutic, yet which are still considered criminal by the government. "

See, I don't have an issue if you use some drugs (depending on how they are sourced). The thing is, that idea of "poisoning oneself and others" is kinda contradictory to what they practically implement and support. Seriously, you'd take some psilocybin or LSD, and then, the next day, the world is just super awesome all the time. That fluoride mental degeneration? NOT A PROBLEM. Smartphones from child slave labour? WOOHOO! Work at silicon valley to make larger numbers in a cave? SOBRIETY!

At that point, I'm thinking, yeah...perhaps those drugs ARE bad. So my question is, what do you do if you're constantly tripping on DMT, without external sources?

 
#14
OS-iris

Well Ive talked the most about the drug debate here on CafeRadLab,  nevertheless,  I want to say I dont think this is the right forum for it.  Im pretty sure the others that devote their time here dont appreciate it too much, because it veers off the topic of the nuclear industry, more or less.    Drugs brings in a new topic of contention, which could distract or turn people off.   CafeRadLab is  an earnest project, if you can dig that.  OK, my suggestion anyway

To follow up on your follow up though,  the substance gaining the greatest favor, at the moment, for psychological, even physiological therapeutic use is not engineered, its totally natural.  Thats the mushroom.   The other chemicals, like LSD are considered less toxic and safer than alcohol or tobacco.   You can judge it one way or the other, but this is whats happening now in psychopharmacology...some of those folks are saying that regular pharmaceuticals used for decades just werent that great, and that these low toxicity psychedelics that were studied to good effect in the 50s are having a resurgence of interest.  They are very helpful for people in terminal cancer, depression,  and addiction.  Its a breakthrough for many people.  

Vox: Meet Ibogaine, the Psychedelic Drug that Could Help End Heroin Addiction
https://maps.org/news/media/5810-vox-mee...-addiction

You seem to insinuate that they might make a person accepting of the current rather disastrous and unethical status quo.  I dont agree.  The evidence suggests that people are less accepting of the injustices to people and the biosphere after 'mind expansion'   Definitely not a fluoride effect

My sentence about Poisoning oneself and others becomes more unthinkable, etc  was a rather feeble attempt to tie in this psychoactive herb discussion into the nuclear theme that is the focus of CafeRadLab.   I hoped to suggest that those persons, that mentality of the prohibitionists, often 'conservatives', the Joseph McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Harry Anslinger era mind set, still active today, is the type of insensitive self righteous ethos that has lead to subjugation of people and poisoning of the biosphere.  

They would throw you behind bars for 'narcotics'  far less harmful than booze while calling environmentalists pinko commie liberal tree hugging snowflake nutjobs.   You are too young to have seen it, besides living in Africa, but that disparaging attitude toward concerned, anti nuclear, anti war youth was the normal thing in the 60s and continues until today. 

I cant figure out your sentiment, but to be clear, I dont put down alcohol use.  Many animals use it,  people have been drinking beer and wine forever.  I drink beer and wine.   There is little doubt that its the most dangerous drug in general use, surpassing cocaine and heroin.  

Anyway....I suggest, even urge that we dont linger on this subject too much, or at least try to tie it in to the nuclear subject in some way. There are other forums better suited for marijuana chat.   Right?


Evgeny Krupitsky, MD, PhD, chief of the research laboratory at St. Petersburg Regional Center of Addictions and Psychopharmacology, who has been researching the treatment of alcoholism and addiction with ketamine since the 1980s found that
" ketamine induced total abstinence in 66 percent of his alcoholic patients (versus 24 percent of the nonpsychedelic control group) for as long as a year. He observed improvement in personality profile, positive transformation of self-concept and emotional attitudes to various aspects of self, positive changes in life values, and improved spiritual development in the ketamine group."

What is the contribution of the psychedelic experience to this improvement? Krupitsky posited nine factors: 22

  1. Stable, positive psychological changes.
  2. Personality growth and self-cognition.
  3. Important insights into existential problems and the meaning of life.
  4. Transformation of one's 'life value system.'
  5. A change of view of one's self and the world around.
  6. Insight into life and death.
  7. A rise of creative energies.
  8. Broadening of spiritual horizons.
  9. Harmonization of a person's relationships with the world and with other people.
OS-iris, you might debate the value of some of that, but for others its a breakthrough
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#15
(01-23-2020, 08:35 PM)Code Wrote: OS-iris

Well Ive talked the most about the drug debate here on CafeRadLab,  nevertheless,  I want to say I dont think this is the right forum for it.  Im pretty sure the others that devote their time here dont appreciate it too much, because it veers off the topic of the nuclear industry, more or less.    Drugs brings in a new topic of contention, which could distract or turn people off.   CafeRadLab is  an earnest project, if you can dig that.  OK, my suggestion anyway

To follow up on your follow up though,  the substance gaining the greatest favor, at the moment, for psychological, even physiological therapeutic use is not engineered, its totally natural.  Thats the mushroom.   The other chemicals, like LSD are considered less toxic and safer than alcohol or tobacco.   You can judge it one way or the other, but this is whats happening now in psychopharmacology...some of those folks are saying that regular pharmaceuticals used for decades just werent that great, and that these low toxicity psychedelics that were studied to good effect in the 50s are having a resurgence of interest.  They are very helpful for people in terminal cancer, depression,  and addiction.  Its a breakthrough for many people.  

Vox: Meet Ibogaine, the Psychedelic Drug that Could Help End Heroin Addiction
https://maps.org/news/media/5810-vox-mee...-addiction

You seem to insinuate that they might make a person accepting of the current rather disastrous and unethical status quo.  I dont agree.  The evidence suggests that people are less accepting of the injustices to people and the biosphere after 'mind expansion'   Definitely not a fluoride effect

My sentence about Poisoning oneself and others becomes more unthinkable, etc  was a rather feeble attempt to tie in this psychoactive herb discussion into the nuclear theme that is the focus of CafeRadLab.   I hoped to suggest that those persons, that mentality of the prohibitionists, often 'conservatives', the Joseph McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Harry Anslinger era mind set, still active today, is the type of insensitive self righteous ethos that has lead to subjugation of people and poisoning of the biosphere.  

They would throw you behind bars for 'narcotics'  far less harmful than booze while calling environmentalists pinko commie liberal tree hugging snowflake nutjobs.   You are too young to have seen it, besides living in Africa, but that disparaging attitude toward concerned, anti nuclear, anti war youth was the normal thing in the 60s and continues until today. 

I cant figure out your sentiment, but to be clear, I dont put down alcohol use.  Many animals use it,  people have been drinking beer and wine forever.  I drink beer and wine.   There is little doubt that its the most dangerous drug in general use, surpassing cocaine and heroin.  

Anyway....I suggest, even urge that we dont linger on this subject too much, or at least try to tie it in to the nuclear subject in some way. There are other forums better suited for marijuana chat.   Right?


Evgeny Krupitsky, MD, PhD, chief of the research laboratory at St. Petersburg Regional Center of Addictions and Psychopharmacology, who has been researching the treatment of alcoholism and addiction with ketamine since the 1980s found that
" ketamine induced total abstinence in 66 percent of his alcoholic patients (versus 24 percent of the nonpsychedelic control group) for as long as a year. He observed improvement in personality profile, positive transformation of self-concept and emotional attitudes to various aspects of self, positive changes in life values, and improved spiritual development in the ketamine group."

What is the contribution of the psychedelic experience to this improvement? Krupitsky posited nine factors: 22

  1. Stable, positive psychological changes.
  2. Personality growth and self-cognition.
  3. Important insights into existential problems and the meaning of life.
  4. Transformation of one's 'life value system.'
  5. A change of view of one's self and the world around.
  6. Insight into life and death.
  7. A rise of creative energies.
  8. Broadening of spiritual horizons.
  9. Harmonization of a person's relationships with the world and with other people.
OS-iris, you might debate the value of some of that, but for others its a breakthrough

Well my argument (or lack of) is from the perspective of cynicism about external suggestions (especially when it's from say, a hierarchical figure at a university). I wasn't suggesting alcohol is good. However, those other suggestions (from those people) clearly try to imply those things are good. I'd be wary. In fact, I remember a Stanford lecturer practically urging everyone to use psilocybin (it was quite creepy, he seemed "off"), referencing only supposed benefits (which I could not identify with as much of it was contradictory and hypocritical).

As well, the idea that drugs have subjectively different effects on people. Some of the things/behaviour I've observed of people not on "drugs" as such is very strange. Projections, for instance. Someone might interrupt me and tell me "Please don't smoke marijuana, it makes you paranoid", when I'm sitting there, not bothering anyone, not saying a word and not being paranoid, wth is that (this actually happened)? 

And yes, I'd far more likely use some mushrooms than something derived from and used by industry (just as a small demonizing example, not supposed to be wholly indicative or a blanket categorization) for "improved productivity" as some technocrats have suggested. If you can appreciate what that implies. Generally, of course, I'd favour natural over synthesized, concentrated, isolated, derived.

The iboga mention is interesting as I've researched that before some years ago (but it's incredibly expensive, unless I like grow some trees) and was recently urged to go use ibogaine on some retreat (which I avoided). I can't say anything about it, but it is relatively common in Africa.

I can tell you about my experience with a guy (who I helped to grow some things) and what his character is like, though he uses ketamine. It's really not good (imo). But I don't blame the ketamine. Just saying, it didn't make him a better person.

But I can understand why people don't want to talk about "drugs", as such, or why they prefer some drugs over others. Or rather, why it's a bit inappropriate for this forum. But the way I see it, there isn't anything or any aspect of the environment that isn't mind-altering drugs. Let's take basic substances such as sugar, caffeine, casein, taurine, etc. All of those can have very profound mental effects. And not necessarily good, causing delusions, neurodegeneration, ignorance, sympathetic system suppression, addictions, etc depending.

I also want to mention something else about a supposedly dangerous plant, Datura Stramonium. So, apparently, I shouldn't use that. Well, I did, for a while, daily (smoked and made tea from leaves, flowers and ate the seeds). Started with lower doses and smoking the leaves/flowers for a few months, occasionally. And later eating seeds daily, working up the dosage, up to like 120 seeds a day. Not a single person noticed I had been using Datura daily. Considering the sort of quantities I used and the way it's classified or mentioned in literature, I find it peculiar. Everyone I talked to suggested I should avoid it at all costs. And while I could notice some physical effects, nothing like what I would call hallucination (not even comparable to a bit of sleep deprivation).To be clear, I'm not suggesting you should try Datura.

Then, sometimes, I walk around the streets, giving hobos food and some other stuff, like smokes, if they want. A lot of those guys being meth and heroin users. I mean, here, about 200 meters away from me, in a busy commercial/residential area. with a large school and a church in the same street, I could be talking with hobos while they shoot up heroin with cops across the street. These hobos are also fairly informed, some of them for instance complain that they can't get kratom or even methadone to get off heroin (due to the medical industry, mostly).

Otoh, recently I went to a clinic because of my pain issues. They didn't want to listen, or help me, even though I was experiencing excruciating pain (I was asking them for anti-inflammatories or something sedative). So I walked out the clinic. After I walked out of the clinic, in the street, two of the clinic's guards restrained/assaulted me, then right after that I was drugged by 6 or so doctors at the clinic, each deciding which drugs they should subject me to. What is that? Afterwards I was essentially imprisoned (sent to another hospital) and drugged some more. What is that?

Anyway, interesting discussion and info you linked and we don't have to continue. I do actually have serious time and space relational issues (for many years by now), which is why I mentioned the DMT, it's basically impossible to explain though..
 
#16
my mental chronometer has been off for years....and it all started when I took this drug 45 minutes ago...

Thanks for sharing your personal and dramatic, harrowing experience.  

CafeRadLab allows editing, and i was just about to erase all of my drug related posts, at least as a courtesy to the other posters.  But as serendipity would have it, I ran across this quote which was in an article on the website 'Big Think'.      Big Think is pretty big, fairly popular, and in fact I had given up on it as being biased for the mainstream.

 "The drugs, at the federal level, are Schedule 1 drugs, which means that they have absolutely no medical utility whatsoever and are incredibly dangerous. People think that the reason that they’re in that schedule is based on some kind of reasonable science or other understanding of what they do rather than just some complete bullshit, which is what it is. .."


Richard J. Miller Professor in the Department of Pharmacology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine 

Well it struck me as funny, that 'Big Think'  would quote a University Professor calling  the federal drug schedule complete bullshit.   And so, while drug conversation is still sort of taboo, and what to say the herbs being seriously illegal in the U.S.  I thought maybe the time has come for greater honesty and open dialogue.   

But what does it have to do with nuclear?


I maintain there IS in fact a relation, if however oblique, and it has to do with the attitudes and lifestyles.   We just read about how in France a SWAT team descended on the peaceful anti nuclear protester and author, violently ransacking his home and property.   In fact I happen to know how that goes myself

And of course the sort of iconic thing about the hippies is that they were smoking pot and calling for peace, whereas the nuclear debacle is all about world war, annihilation and super poisons,  government sponsored; the government that was casting the hippies as criminals by way of rule of law.

And it might be the same professor mentioned above, who said when you look closely at the historical use of these natural drugs, it becomes clear that mankind has used them forever, and the actual aberration is the short period of abolition that we are in.   As they explain, the psychoactive plants were a key feature...a deeply rooted element of mankinds ethos and mental-emotional-spiritual development. 

For example, one of the greatest geniuses, Albert Einstein used drugs.  "He was known to smoke a lot of marijuana and it is said that he also enjoyed an array of hallucinogenic drugs including Dimethyl-triptimene, a drug also known as DMT, "

"Interestingly enough he and Nikola Tesla have said that their greatest discoveries and ideas showed themselves during meditative visions (possibly trips?). He was also a heavy user of cocaine, LSD, and meth."


https://vocal.media/futurism/11-things-y...t-einstein

Its impossible to overestimate Einstein's contribution to human civilization. He was very much against war.   There are other names too,  showing drug use doesnt necessarily turn you into an inept mentally disturbed dropout.   Carl Sagan,  Steve Jobs,  Bill Gates, (LSD) Francis Crick discovered the double helix of DNA in 1953 while under the influence of LSD. Richard Feynman, celebrated physicist,  mathematician Ralph Abraham, creatives like Gregory Peck, Carey Grant , George Clooney....and the list goes on.  These creative giants truly tower over the small, narrow minded cretans that pose as political dignitaries who make our citizens into criminals.

"give peace a chance"

So I came to erase my posts, and instead I added another one.
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
#17
(01-24-2020, 06:40 AM)Code Wrote: ...
So I came to erase my posts, and instead I added another one.

Interesting, but I have to ask, despite Einstein and whoever's genius. What resulted from their associations with the societal institutions? Did Einstein not lament his "contributions" in nuclear science? I wouldn't know. It's a peculiar situation. Sure, you can use drugs and not be a dropout (in the societal/institutional sense)... but you're almost invariably coopted, with that. So what does that suggest the problem is?
 
#18
The world of men is dreaming, it has gone mad in its sleep, and a snake is strangling it, but it can't wake up.
- D.H. Lawrence
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
#19
(01-24-2020, 08:00 AM)Horse Wrote: The world of men is dreaming, it has gone mad in its sleep, and a snake is strangling it, but it can't wake up.
- D.H. Lawrence

Here's a simple example of that. ~200 americans die of opioid overdoses, note, just overdoses, daily (from what I read). There are 58 opioid prescriptions per 100 americans, per year (certainly not 58 of 100 americans though). But apparently, 4/10 americans have chronic pain issues, iirc. Indicative of a very broken, toxic society?

How many deaths, due to significant contributing toxicity effects from opioids (say, liver damage, heart damage, kidney damage, weakened immune systems resulting in something like pneumonia, etc) could you realistically attribute to opioids as being a large factor of but it's not attributed to opioids, because it's not an "overdose"?

I would wager it would be around 10x that of overdoses alone. So let's say, 500k deaths per year, as a very vague estimate.

And these people (I say that in the most vague and generalizing flattering way) worry about marijuana, or kratom, or even opium (when pharma basically has monopoly on opium cultivation/use for obviously significantly worse stuff)?

Aside from that, my main concern, as a sort of applied societal factor, with radiation is of course in the medical industry (though obviously it also implicates mining, processing facilities, power plants, waste management). Considering its prominence, radiation overuse and the sort of crap it pushes (like not shielding reproductive organs) etc. I mean, due to the medical industry, the average radiation an american receives is roughly 2-3x higher than background (from the info I've read, but I also account for possible underestimation, which I think is very likely, for instance, like the software or mechanisms they use have automatic "exposure" controls when it detects shielding and then boosts the radiation amount...think about it).

Shit, I could probably make a case for the medical industry in large part being responsible for climate change, based on that sort of stuff.

In the mean time, people can't fathom these sort of graphs, simply cannot accept the information? And it's especially confounding when you look at the absolute numbers.

http://vaxinfostarthere.com/did-vaccines-save-us/

I certainly hope to see the day where there are designer vaccines against stupidity, excess co2, being shot at and plutonium, aside from a vaccine for better voting participation and "the economy" boostery as well as associated work ethic.

In the mean time, I feel it is my duty as an informed, credible, authoritative "scientist" with the most benevolent philanthropic ideals to call for the immediate inclusion of the imposition of vaccination into the SAD RDA. How am I supposed to live with only about 60 vaccinations having cytokine storm-like effects, before the age of 18? How can that be enough to provide immunity? How in the hell am I supposed to avoid cancer and stay healthy with so few?

\/ mofos.
 
#20
"but you're almost invariably coopted, with that. So what does that suggest the problem is?"

Well first, psycho-active plants arent a cure, necessarily.  They provide a shift of view which may or may not lead to less aggression.  Certainly the drug lords of Mexico are insanely violent.  There is a lot that goes into the equation, and for example if you throw off the biochemistry too far, and especially within some social contexts, violence may be heightened. Alcohol is famous for that.  Cocaine,  antidepressants, white sugar etc.   https://www.livescience.com/32934-do-ant...2html.html

But I think you rather hit the nail on the head.  Even those great minds like Einstein are co-opted.  I dont believe LSD was criminal in most of the years Einstein might have used it, and therefor he wasnt criminal for mind expanding drugs.  It was people like Edgar Hoover that posed him as criminal.  A threat to authority.  Nixon started the war on drugs that since made criminals of a huge percent of the population, as we saw.  https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/07/scien...trash.html

Many of the physicists who produced the atomic bomb had regret and reserve, and some of them were then blacklisted by the government.  Robert Oppenheimer, Leo Szilard, in fact a huge list

https://www.atomicheritage.org/key-docum...d-petition

The FBI  went through Einsteins trash, tapped his phone, followed him.   "At a dinner party in 1948, Einstein told the Polish Ambassador to the US, “I suppose you must realize by now that the US is no longer a free country, that undoubtedly our conversation is being recorded. The room is wired, and my house is closely watched.” The presence of this conversation in the Einstein dossier confirms the warning."

There is a statement somewhere, perhaps from the FBI, that these intellectuals were too smart to argue with, so presumably, the spying and defamation was deemed the prudent course of action.

More from Einstein

“...under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.....
“This crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism... An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worship acquisitive success.."

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/09/eins-s03.html

We know that now spying on citizens has reached the greatest fever pitch sci fi level ever. And of course what the government and power players want now, as then, is to be supported and enriched....the public pays for the military/government/industrial complex in total....and any movement against it is a threat to their survival.   So we do pay for all that war machinery and surveillance and everything, and that means not only Einstein but the mass public are co-opted to support that control trip.

For example Chinese 're education' concentration camps  https://apnews.com/4ab0b341a4ec4e648423f2ec47ea5c47

There is an old film clip, where soldiers are jubilant going to war...the latest enlistees...they are excited and happy about it.  But they happen to pass by a line of returning soldiers, who of course are shattered by the horrors of war.  So returning to that idea of sobriety,  the experiential horror of war was beyond sobering.  And it was sobering for those green soldiers going in, who had no idea what suffering awaited them.    Some people who took these psychoactive herbs, they describe an overwhelming realization  and empathy for the suffering of others.  As Aldous Huxley would say, the doors of perception were opened to heaven and hell.

So perhaps one of the values of the psychoactive herb is not intoxication but the realization that the normal state of mind is highly deluded due to its remarkably narrow, self centered normalcy bias.  The great sobriety comes in realizing ones nearly infinite non-importance and short often painful mortal existence.  We might lament that we were stiff, heartless, up tight, and not very nice.  In a great sobering wave that rolls over us we realize we held back love, maybe both for the self and others. 

Indeed its dismaying to see the cartoonish faces of the power players who co-opt or rather subvert not only intellectuals but the entire public and not only that, the entire biosphere.  I often say its a science fiction nightmare.  And we the public, we are complicit.   So the time for that sobriety has never been more relevant than now.  

Aldous Huxley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEXs3RspWyU
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
  


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