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sociological roots of nukism
#21
Nuclear is a game changer, a threat that could wipe out all life on Earth.  As a weapon, nuclear is the biggest stick on the block, the power and control held by a select few.  As an energy source, nuclear failed to give us cheap electricity for all, instead, it gave a select few the wealth and more control over our lives.  All the promises were lies.  The radionuclides unleashed poison the world and everything in it.  Cumulatively it's already bad.  The way the game is being played out is a one way dead end rocky road we're on.  People are beginning to see and steps are being taken to rein in the nuclear industry by not funding their adventures.  Another challenge we face is cleaning up the radioactive messes we've already made and learning how to sequester the unseen radioactive contaminants from life on Earth.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
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#22
Palau became the first nuclear-free nation in 1980    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-free_zone

4000 years after the ancient egyptians, man struggles to act with virtue and save nature from the polluting, degrading, deadly excretions of his species. 


President of Palau becomes Champion of the Earth for his pioneering green economy policies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoBbv6rOrOk
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#23
Our minds have been controlled.  

Noam Chomsky has several videos explaining how the shaping of our attitude has been intentionally implemented. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoNOQ7LMR8c

The rich must not be threatened by the public.  The public employs governing bodies which assure they dont acquire power or approach equality.  Our attitude is controlled to the point that we willingly pay for our own enslavement. 

 James Madison,  fourth President of the United States (1809 – 1817) is hailed as the “Father of the Constitution” said that the primary  responsibility of the government is to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. (paraphrase)
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#24
How the earth was lost

I get the impression that the majority of people don't realize the world has been lost.  They don't know we are in the final throes of the death of the ecosystem.  They think, if they think about it at all, that doom may or may not loom somewhere in the future.

But we reached the high point of an inspirational, thriving, bountiful, vivifying world  -both the world of nature and of civilizations- quite a long time ago.  We may occasionally wonder at the majestic architectural and sculptural accomplishments of our distant ancestors, before returning to our cell phones and assumptions that we have achieved the highest state of human existence at the present time.  Man has increased his wealth everywhere on the planet we are told.    What are we looking at after all...just some old columns and stone artifacts.


[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#25
But we miss the picture.   The wonderful Parthenon was originally set in a magical dense green forest.  The country was alive, the oceans teeming with life.  The atmosphere was  billowing with a thousand fragrances of life.  People were sharper, more alive.  Their reaction times were keen, their artistic sensibility at a high level.  But this high level of civilization contained the seeds of its own destruction, the same forces that had destroyed civilizations for centuries before. 

The great Greek cities were already destroying their habitat before they reached their height.

By the mid-fifth century BCE, the land surrounding Athens was largely
deforested. 

deforestation of europe
shorturl.at/kVZ38

Two thousand years before Greece, another great civilization had already vanished, in the land of the mesopotamians.  The reasons were approximately the same.

2000 years before the classic Greeks, people were making great art and had fantastic cities.   

[Image: art-and-liturgy-lamassu-mesopotamian-myt...istory.jpg]


===========


Great civilizations fail because of characteristics apparently inherent in our species.  The scene plays out over and over through history.  How the world was lost can be summed up like this. 

Mankind is an egomaniacal murderous greedy jerk caught in an authoritarian submissive embrace which has driven the living earth to a  hollowed out shell of its former glory.  We have self domesticated ourselves to be perpetually juvenile.  We enslave our own kind and have enslaved some other species as well, for labor and to eat.   We have killed 90% of the visible animals and continue to murder our own species, while consuming and driving to extinction the rest of life.  We cut down half the trees and turned the world into a desert .  The sociological trend has always been authoritarian with the formation of a military industrial machine that destroys the ecosystem and inflicts misery, death, theft, and slavery and social inequality

The capitalist ethos then finished the world off as the planet became a sacrifice zone for the economic machine and then finally a dead zone.  Before mankind starves to death, he will be eating mainly jellyfish from the ocean and about three genetically modified mono crops before the agricultural land becomes infertile. 


This paper explores the problem well;

ECOCIDE
A Short History of the Mass Extinction of Species
Franz Broswimmer

http://ewa.home.amu.edu.pl/Broswimmer,%20Ecocide.pdf
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#26
We're Juvenile.   This is sometimes called neoteny.   It is related to the domestication syndrome I was mentioning.  

 The domestication syndrome would make us tame and submissive.  It seems we have been getting more domesticated over the last tens of thousands of years.  The asians, in particular,  have had increasing neoteny starting about 15,000 years ago.    Anyway, we should ask; why do we enable despotic leaders?  Show me one good exemplary leader

a short video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmRuW7OMbvo

We are not weakened just from domestication. We can be downgraded by diet, lifestyles, toxins and trauma.  Its not just the genetic code  like they thought...there is an epigenetic transfer

"We are more than the sum of our genes. Epigenetic mechanisms modulated by environmental cues such as diet, disease or our lifestyle take a major role in regulating the DNA by switching genes on and off. researchers from the Max Planck Institute of Immunobiology and Epigenetics in Freiburg show robust evidence that not only the inherited DNA itself but also the inherited epigenetic instructions contribute in regulating gene expression in the offspring. Moreover, the new insights by the Lab of Nicola Iovino describe for the first time biological consequences of this inherited information. The study proves that mother’s epigenetic memory is essential for the development and survival of the new generation.  Our study indicates that we inherit more than just genes from our parents. It seems to be that we also get a fine-tuned as well as important gene regulation machinery that can be influenced by our environment and individual lifestyle."   https://www.mpg.de/11397136/epigenetics-...enerations

 "The lingering effect on subsequent generations of an initial environmental disturbance in parent animals can be profound, with genes continuing to be variously silenced or expressed without an associated change in gene sequence for many generations." 
https://jeb.biologists.org/content/213/1/3

"Extreme and traumatic events can change a person -- and often, years later, even affect their children. Researchers have now unmasked a piece in the puzzle of how the inheritance of traumas may be mediated. The phenomenon has long been known in psychology: traumatic experiences can induce behavioural disorders that are passed down from one generation to the next. It is only recently that scientists have begun to understand the physiological processes underlying hereditary trauma"  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...135953.htm

Emotional trauma is passed on to future generations. From people seeing their loved ones tortured or burned at the stake, to native Indians losing their land and people, and the citizen enlisted to fight in horrendous wars.   The public has been made submissive to authoritarian rule.   

"Epigenetic links have also been established in animal studies. For example, mice that have been taught to fear  the smell of cherries when it was paired with an electric shock had children and grandchildren that also showed signs of anxiety when exposed to the odor, even though they had never “learned” the painful association."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma


We don't have to have authoritarian rule; societies can reinvent themselves.   
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#27
Murdered by the Italian mafia; reporter Ilaria Alpi

 In 2009 Francesco Fonti, a former 'Ndrangheta (Italian Mafia) member, claimed that Ilaria Alpi and her cameraman were murdered because they had seen toxic waste shipped by the 'Ndrangheta arrive in Bosaso, Somalia.

At the time of her murder, she was following a case of weapon and illegal toxic waste traffic in which she believed also the Italian Army and other institutions were involved. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaria_Alpi
 [Image: 800px-Ilaria_alpi.jpg]
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#28
Journalism is suppressed because the leaders are corrupt.  Truth and psychopathy are not compatible

Julian Assange was arrested because the truth is unacceptable to the military-industrial-security complex

Interactive map on press freedom in this article

Journalist killings, arrests and assaults climb worldwide as authoritarianism spreads
https://theconversation.com/journalist-k...ads-116927
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#29
Majia Nadesan, Ph.D.  is a professor of communication in the School of Social and Behavioral Sciences 

She explores some sociological roots of nukism

https://asu.academia.edu/majianadesan

Lessons from Fukushima
Dr Majia Nadesan

https://slideplayer.com/slide/13889442/







Talk by Kate Brown author of "Manual for Survival: A Chernobyl Guide to the Future" recorded April 16, 2019 at Kane Hall, University of Washington, Seattle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0y8bD35...owr9oS2eWk

I havent read it, but I suppose her book is good
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#30
Thoughts on 
Ecology
Mother Nature
Capitalism is by nature a psychopathic instrument
Judaeo-Christian religious doctrine
social Darwinism
destruction of the living world

The attitude of western civilizations toward the earth, and their place in it, gives great insight into the sociological roots of nukism.

from the dictionary we can see the concept of ecology;

ecology

1873oecology, "branch of science dealing with the relationship of living things to their environments," coined in German by German zoologist Ernst Haeckel as Ökologie, from Greek oikos"house, dwelling place, habitation"  "clan"+ -logia "study of" . In use with reference to anti-pollution activities from 1960s.

This tells us that western civilization, the views of which have dominated the world's civilizations,  has only recently begun considering the relationship of living things to their environment.  Its like one page out of a thousand page history of mankind. 

This is not so for many indigenous cultures who have innate respect for mother earth.  The idea of a mother earth can be found in ancient egypt.  Gods and stories were the allegorical means of transmitting philosophy during a period when most people were not able to read and write. 

from a wiki article on mother nature;

"Algonquian legend says that "beneath the clouds lives the Earth-Mother from whom is derived the Water of Life, who at her bosom feeds plants, animals and human" . She is otherwise known as Nokomis, the Grandmother.
In Inca mythology, Mama Pacha or Pachamama is a fertility goddess who presides over planting and harvesting. Pachamama is usually translated as "Mother Earth" but a more literal translation would be "Mother Universe" (in Aymara and Quechua mama = mother / pacha = world, space-time or the universe). Pachamama and her husband, Inti, are the most benevolent deities and are worshiped in parts of the Andean mountain ranges"

"In her book Coateteleco, pueblo indígena de pescadores , Teódula Alemán Cleto states, En nuestra cultura prehipánica el respeto y la fe a nuestra madre naturaleza fueron primordiales para vivir en plena armonía como seres humanos. ("In our [Mexican] prehispanic culture, respect and faith in our Mother Nature  were paramount to living in full harmony as human beings."

So In view of previous posts in this thread,  we can see a kind of devolution of mans opinions and respect for nature, culminating in this global capitalist system which has the sole motive of profiting by exploitation. The earth is nothing more than real estate, to be exploited for maximum monetary returns, and so often the people and animals are viewed no differently.  A 'resource' for 'investment'.

I have yet to see Trump refer to the living world as 'Mother Nature'     Indeed, I was trying to juxtapose a sculpture of Trump and the one of Ramses to illustrate that our confidence and pride in reaching the highest level of civilization is unwarranted, shameful.  We have raised money to be a god and lowered mother nature to an abused slave.

And what precipitated and cemented this current world view? The view of determining the value of things and our actions solely on a monetary basis...a world of raw materials and labor, here for the benefit and maximum exploitation by those with the means?  An action plan that was only philosophically countered by a counter culture movement in the sixties?

Capitalism is by nature a psychopathic instrument, inasmuch as all compassion is removed, indeed thought unnecessary for proper and ideal function.   The 'hidden hand' of market forces seems to have been cemented into normalcy by the ideas of social Darwinism, which actually spread into mass consciousness hundreds of years after the inception of the current capitalist model.  To the victor goes the spoils usually means, at least subconsciously, that the best man has won, that the struggle of opponents has produced the best  winner, deserving of his gains by natural right.    

The other force that comes to mind is this Judaeo-Christian religious doctrine that the world is here expressly to be dominated by mankind.

" And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

We wont get into the argument about what those lines were meant to convey, as an allegory.  We are only interested here on the attitude of our species.  Why can we bring the world to  80% death and feel just fine about it?  This has no small relationship to the nuclear debacle.  

Humans just 0.01% of all life but have destroyed 83% of wild mammals – study
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/...mals-study
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#31
The ankh was used in writing as a triliteral sign, representing a sequence of three consonants, Ꜥ-n-ḫ. This sequence was found in several Egyptian words, including the words meaning "mirror", "floral bouquet", and "life". In art the symbol often appeared as a physical object representing either life or substances such as air or water that are related to it.

The ancient egyptian deification of the heavens/sky,  NUT, holds an Ankh and balances a pitcher of water


[Image: 220px-Nut.svg.png]


NUT, with the earth god GEB, gives birth to ISIS.  (on the left)   She is the epitome of fertility, maternal kindness, magic and life.   We could interpret ISIS as Mother Nature...although the symbolization varies quite a bit.

[Image: isis-and-osiris.jpg]

below, a Roman sculpture of ISIS.   Man has had a veneration for nature, the natural forces, the life force and the earth which we see in the myths and artwork.   This is sadly lacking as the earth has turned into something to be bought and sold and exploited for profit,  or a de-mystified study for scientists, to be reduced to constituent elements and chemical interactions.   Our only gods now are sexual titillation and money.  I hope it is evident that this state of affairs of contemporary man is not a great advancement, but indeed a devolution of sorts.  Some artist worked really hard to portray that grace and elevated nobility.  Enjoy it, even as your IQ is brought down by chemical toxins and artificial radionuclides....sit back, grab a super sized soda and a burger and grok on it a sec before tuning into the ball game...


[Image: 355px-thumbnail.jpg]
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#32
The nukers aren't the only ones with pathological traits.  Plenty of psychos run around in both camps.  You're broadening  the rant to include most everyone and you may be missing the mark.    Ecology, the relationship of living things to their environments.  Which is it, a science or a religion?  The natural world is a tough place. Small groups of humans in the past had a much larger world to exploit.  They could easily move around to better hunting grounds when the animals disappeared, the firewood became scarce, or the waters fouled.  Hunter/gathers, living off the land, didn't live in harmony with their surroundings.  They struggled to survive just as we still do in greater numbers than before.   I'm grateful that technology has made life easier for mankind.  Nuclear science informs us of the atomic structure of matter.  That's powerful knowledge that we've turned into a weapon and a tool.   It's how we utilize technology that will determine our fate.  

Some comments to some of your generalizations.  Money and capitalism, the real wealth comes right out of the Earth, gold among the many metals we value as well as oil and minerals.  The bible quote is a Judeo religious doctrine not a Christian one.  The monotheistic religions don't have the same god you know.  Mythological gods were just symbols of arch-types and ideals.  Talking politics and religion is the fastest way to offend the most people.  I know that Mother Earth will survive whatever offense man can do and the Universe will teach us wonders if we can learn the lessons.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
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#33
Horse, thanks for your views
I concur for the most part.

Hunter gatherers may have had more free time than 'modern' humans.   The pressure of human overpopulation forces certain common social traits. Like you say, we can be happy with our group accomplishments....the benefits of manufacturing, the amazing fruits of science, like this computer,  transportation.    

But modern doesnt mean happier, or healthier.  Cities mentally disconnect the species from its source in nature. They crowd people together and force conformity, or ostracization if you cant fit in.  Modern civilization has a way of making indigenous cultures into poverty stricken, alcohol drinking diabetics.   

But the point you made about  "Hunter/gathers, living off the land, didn't live in harmony with their surroundings."
Is one of my themes.  The problem is in our species, and this stems from being an ape on earth.  These psychological underpinnings that are a scourge of society...the pecking order, the authoritarian submissive embrace, the killing instinct, male aggression...these are all pretty standard ape behaviors.   I touched on this in post #10 

"Roots of nukism can be seen in other species.

Conflict as a generator of both greatness and collapse."

and again in post #25

This author tells how early man slaughtered mass amounts of animals, much more than needed, and left them to rot. Everywhere man went, the mega fauna went extinct.  The same ruthless mass killing was done not long ago with the buffalo, as 'white man'  relentlessly drove the indigenous people out of the territory. We have no heart for the cows in factory farms.  We are ruthless heartless killers

ECOCIDE
A Short History of the Mass Extinction of Species
Franz Broswimmer

http://ewa.home.amu.edu.pl/Broswimmer,%20Ecocide.pdf

That is what makes the baboon tribe that achieved a unique level of civil behavior so interesting.  We have all the nasty traits of our wild ancestors, but have the ability to forge new social orders.  We need to do this urgently.  End the authoritarian embrace and decentralize. Use new economic models. Above all, be humble before mother nature

Politics and religion arouse emotions and heated divisions.  But this itself is telling.   The people who are driven by these trends in politics religion and economics...often all bound together,  are in the greatest need of untangling their emotional -mental bias.   Is it not our egomaniacal attitude and economic/political system which is driving the world to maximum exploitation?  

The nuclear and oil industries are perfect examples of capitalist ideology. The world runs on this model.  Most people think it is working out, that it is normal, even our manifest destiny;

'Capitalism and Freedom' Milton Friedman  

'The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success'
Rodney Stark

'How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and the Success of the West'
http://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=1809

While a few see how dangerous and ludicrous this ideology is. 

"The Doctrine of Discovery, formalized in the Papal Bulls of the 13th and 14th centuries, specified that the entire world was under the jurisdiction of the Pope, as God’s representative on earth. Any land not Christianized, i.e. not under the sovereignty of a Christian ruler, could be possessed on behalf of God. All time and space was considered empty until Christians arrived with God’s truth; until then it was Terra Nullius.[5] Previously it existed in a dark, wild and timeless existence of absolutely no significance"

'Challenging Christian Hegemony: The Doctrine of Discovery, Manifest Destiny, and American Exceptionalism'

https://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/...tionalism/

I hasten to say it doesnt matter what religion or economic system or government or combination thereof is acting like this.  In fact the countries would look very similar to an extraterrestrial.

Of course there is no way to change peoples minds on these subjects.  Perhaps planting the seed is enough...so that the indoctrinated might not be totally caught off guard when the public revolts en masse at the dysfunction of these ideologies that have driven the living world to destruction. 

Dont forget, they are free to express counter views
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#34
Normalcy bias,  Feng Shui  and your life at the peak of civilization!


Normalcy bias  is important.  To create a better future, we need to see where we are at and then let our imagination run free.  Let inspiration and creativity,  compassion and humility guide us toward a new plan of action. 

 Imagine the best possible state of life on space ship earth.   


What is Feng Shui?

"the Chinese art or practice of creating harmonious surroundings that enhance the balance of yin and yang, as in arranging furniture or determining the siting of a house or town"

"Feng Shui, literally meaning “wind and water,” is a traditional Chinese concept linking the destiny of man to his environment. It aims to ensure that people live in harmony with their surroundings."

"Taoism and feng shui share the same roots, as both disciplines evolved from the ancient wisdom of understanding the interconnectedness of everything around us"

"originating in China almost 6,000 years ago, Feng Shui  literally means “wind” (Feng) and “water” (Shui). It is an ancient method of constructing and optimizing residences and businesses to bring about happiness, abundance and harmony. It includes architecture, urban planning, interior design, and garden design."

Capitalism, Freedom, Democracy, and Success.  
Everyone agrees, we live in the highest point of civilization and wealth is increasing worldwide.

Here in the United States of America,  the Doctrine of Discovery,  and our Manifest Destiny led to the death and extermination of 90% of the native people,  most of the virgin forests, extinction or decimation of top animal species like the passenger pigeon, buffalo, bears, mountain lions, otter, beaver, walrus and more

Great industrial and technological advances gave us our current life style, here at the peak of mankind's civilization.

We live in great cities

and this is the city I live in.  To most people, this looks like freedom and progress. They seem unable to imagine anything better.   

[Image: las-principales-ciudades-de-estados-unid...1453142213]






And what is life like in this pinnacle of success, freedom, capitalism and democracy?

You work 6 hours out of 8,  every day to support people other than you and your family.  That is why  the top wealthiest 1% possess 40% of the nation's wealth; the bottom 80% own 7%

You must work within the confines of this system.  You get 16 days off per year (4%) , not counting weekends which you dearly need to recover and clean up.  You can spend perhaps 5% of your income on entertainment.  The favorite thing to do in your free time is watch TV.   You can vote, but both teams will keep this system in place.  That is arguably because you are a cash cow.

https://www.get.com/blog/infographic-wha...-pastimes/

You will spend 93% of your life indoors. You will spend  only 7% of your entire life outdoors. 

https://snowbrains.com/brain-post-much-t...-outdoors/

This is your life;  you likely live in a grid,  a horizontal grid, and quite likely in a vertical grid, inside one of these squares for 93% of your life, working most of your time to provide for the rich.  A certain amount of your work time goes to benefit Nuclear Power stock holders, CEOs, bankers and corporations who build and manage them.

Now let me ask  
IS THAT GOOD FENG SHUI?

[Image: CHS-41604.jpg]
[Image: 6a00d83451ebab69e20154366b71b7970c-pi]
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#35
"Is it not our egomaniacal attitude and economic/political system which is driving the world to maximum exploitation?"

The fear of hunger drives mankind to the madness of maximum exploitation.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
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#36
(06-26-2019, 04:14 PM)Horse Wrote: "Is it not our egomaniacal attitude and economic/political system which is driving the world to maximum exploitation?"

The fear of hunger drives mankind to the madness of maximum exploitation.

Do you mean fear of not having enough to eat?  Please expound.  

I would add in fear of not having shelter and clothes, fear of going to jail,  fear of not getting a mate.   If only we could end the real estate debacle, our largest single chain to wage slavery, and turn the roads into food forests. 

Imagine how much less work there would be for primitive hunter gatherers if they had some modern technology...

"The Three to Five Hour Working Day["

"Sahlins concludes that the hunter-gatherer only works three to five hours per adult worker each day in food production.[7][8] Using data gathered from various foraging societies and quantitative surveys done among the Arhem Landers of Australia and quantitative materials cataloged by Richard Lee on the Dobe Bushmen of the Kalahari, Sahlins argues that hunter-gatherer tribes are able to meet their needs through working roughly 15-20 hours per week or less."

============================




To work less, enjoy more, and defund the large corporations who exploit the world, its people and resources,  imagine the world in its most wonderful state,  then creatively plan towards that.    

designing hamlets within food forests, advance beyond cars and roads,  form collective non interest banks,  encourage  education and culture,   decentralize power grids,  develop a different economic system that does not aim to maximize profit, figure out a way to end the real estate fiasco,  keep enlightening ourselves toward women's equality, (for lack of a better word), limit the size of cities and break them up with huge parks, encourage human population reduction, localize production,  encourage a creative re-visioning of civilization and human potential,  hold the earth and its life forms with as much love and tenderness as we can

Studies can help us design better living systems;

"Foraging and farming as niche construction: stable and unstable adaptations"
Peter Rowley

ABSTRACT
All forager (or hunter–gatherer) societies construct niches, many of them actively by the concentration of wild plants into useful stands, small-scale cultivation, burning of natural vegetation to encourage useful species, and various forms of hunting, collectively termed ‘low-level food production’. Many such niches are stable and can continue indefinitely, because forager populations are usually stable. Some are unstable, but these usually transform into other foraging niches, not geographically expansive farming niches. The Epipalaeolithic (final hunter–gatherer) niche in the Near East was complex but stable, with a relatively high population density, until destabilized by an abrupt climatic change. The niche was unintentionally transformed into an agricultural one, due to chance genetic and behavioural attributes of some wild plant and animal species. The agricultural niche could be exported with modifications over much of the Old World. This was driven by massive population increase and had huge impacts on local people, animals and plants wherever the farming niche was carried. Farming niches in some areas may temporarily come close to stability, but the history of the last 11 000 years does not suggest that agriculture is an effective strategy for achieving demographic and political stability in the world's farming populations.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048996/
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#37
It wasn't just intellectual exercise that drives our actions.  It's always been the fear of hunger that drives man's actions.  Our leaders know that and provide bread and circus to distract the populace from basic hunger.  Hunter-gatherers defended territory to ensure their food source.  Agriculturalists need arable land for their grains and protein sources.  Lets look at the story of buffalo slaughter to drive the Indian to starvation.  The buffalo were slaughtered to make way for cattle, the preferred meat of the white man.  Buffalo carry a bacteria, Brucellosis, which easily infects domesticated animals and humans.  That the slaughter  drove the red man to starvation was a bonus for the white man exercising his survival strategy.  Any system that feeds the people will gain support, failure to feed the populace is what drives revolt against a system.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
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#38
I think I begin to see your point.  Is it fair to say that our basic needs are used as leverage so that people in powerful positions can guide the populace to their wishes?  Mainly...or exclusively food?

"The fear of hunger drives mankind to the madness of maximum exploitation."

What besides food might also be leveraged to hold us ransome to a regime?

Im reminded of a quote by the controversial Hulda Clark;  " The sick have been held hostage for their money or intangible assets since time immemorial. Doctors, even primitive and natural healers, surround themselves with mystery as they use herbs or chemicals and incantations or "prognoses" to help the sick recover. Today, the medical industry (doctors and their suppliers and insurers) take a significant amount of the worker's earnings. Wouldn't it be nice if they could all go back to gardening or some other primitive and useful endeavor?"

Or this Scientific American article that says we urgently need nuclear power because the its morally reprehensible not to use it!

  "Universal access to energy is arguably the most essential ingredient to ensuring that every child can live a healthy life of dignity and realize his or her human potential. Some people argue that it would be disastrous for the currently poor parts of the world to ramp up their energy use. I find that argument morally reprehensible. "

here, nuclear provides jobs for Japanese Nuclear Emergency Workers

[Image: 20110316__Japan-Earthquake-Nuclear-Riskp1.jpg?w=600]
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#39
I favor the positive reinforcement technique before resorting to  punishment when modifying behavior.   The pro nucleaists and businessmen should first be isolated from society.  Then as they display positive behavior with concern for the ecosphere, they should be rewarded with food and water.   The whole movement to a non polluting, nuclear free future can be very peaceful

Rats free their friends from a maze.   But humans are captive in a grid like maze and they cant even imagine there is a way out. Borg life is the best, we think.   We should try to access our inner rat, and free ourselves from this rat race, relegated to living 90% of our lives in indoor boxes, working most of our time for overlords.

A University of Chicago study showed that 23 out of 30 “free rats” quickly learned to open the door of a complex trap in 
order to free their fellow rat.  They would even forego chocolate in order to save their rat companions 

https://news.uchicago.edu/story/helping-...n-behavior
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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#40
We know that our species homosapiens is a very close relative to other apes.

  This fact should be a foundation in the way we see ourselves and place in the world.  This would help solve our outstanding social problems, including the power structure which gives corporations and leaders the unassailable power to exploit, poison and destroy the ecosphere and animals, including homosapiens. 


[Image: eight_col_awwwape.jpg?1438721400]
accept it, you're a hominid

We are in the family  with chimpanzees gorillas and orangutans.  Genetically, chimps and people are more closely related than either of us are to gorillas.   Current research says we are about 98.7%  bonobo/chimpanzee

Homo sapiens or Homo egomaniac?

The history of our human self understanding is one great humiliation after another, as we had to admit we werent godlike beings separate from the animals,  then we had to admit we were primates,  then we had to admit other animals used tools, then we had to admit other animals had feelings and could think, then we had to admit other animals had mental abilities superior to our own.  And this all happened in less than 200 years. We have been humiliated, but we still arent humble, its amazing.   The sooner we become humble, the sooner we can transform our selves and our society into a less harmful, more enlightened force. We are just now emerging from an egomaniacal dark age. 

chimps have better working memory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXP8qeFF6A


The study of biological, evolutionary basis of social behavior is called sociobiology.  Look how recently we are attempting to hunderstand our social behavior in context to evolution and biology, and how our egomania hinders progress;

American biologist E.O. Wilson with Sociobiology: the New Synthesis (1975), which laid the cornerstone for the modern interdisciplinary study of animal behaviour. Although the bulk of Wilson’s book is not controversial, a final chapter attempting to understand the evolution of human social behaviour using adaptationist principles ignited such an intense debate that the very word sociobiology, until that time used synonymously with animal social behaviour, is now usually restricted to the application of such principles to human behaviour. Although some people remain disturbed by the idea of applying sociobiological principles to human behaviour, the approach has flourished and provided insights into human behaviour that could not have come to light with alternative, non-evolutionary worldviews.

It should go without saying that not only are humans like chimps but chimps are like humans

'Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLe84OkwKOA

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Hooters




These loud, long-distance vocalizations aid in the formation of social groups or parties amongst male chimpanzees, and used to display the dominance and strength of their party Additionally, the level of pant-hooting in chimps vary based upon their individual dominance rank within a party, high-ranking adult males predominantly and more frequently emitting the pant-hoot.
Since males often pant hoot together with other males, the researchers tested the idea that such chorusing reflects strong social bonds between males.

[Image: p02kw6c4.jpg]

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before Darwin, there was 

the Great Chain of Being 

This idea still infuses our subconscious world view


"The Great Chain of Being is a hierarchical structure of all matter and life, thought in medieval Christianity to have been decreed by God. The chain starts with God and progresses downward to angels, demons (fallen/renegade angels), stars, moon, kings, princes, nobles, commoners, wild animals, domesticated animals, trees, other plants, precious stones, precious metals and other minerals."

"the Great Chain ranked the races of mankind from “lower” to “higher;” and on the other, within English society, it carried through the social order with peasants and servants at the bottom, then tradesmen and the gentry, then the nobility, and on up to royalty at the top who served to link earthly and heavenly existences. Correspondingly, the designations of “lower” and “higher,” stemming directly from the Great Chain notion, proved irresistible to zoologists: lemurs, for example, were and still are “lower” primates, while apes and humans are “higher primates.”"


This image remains in our collective consciousness and contributes to our psychopathic social hierarchy and destruction of the ecosphere

[Image: 411px-Great_Chain_of_Being_2.png]
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
 
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