• Thank you for visiting the Cafe Rad Lab Forum
  • Welcome to the discussion on all things nuclear
  • This site is updated daily.
Hello There, Guest! Login Register


Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
WEBCAM November 2016
#41
11-11 06:45  Over on ENEnews webcam forum, elibi reported seeing smoke coming from the csfp.  Others chimed in to let elibi know that it was raining and it was probably just rain water blurring the view.  I happened to be watching at the time when the left side of the screen caught my eye.  Drops had been hitting the lens but the sudden blurring looked like something was happening.  Just because it’s raining doesn’t mean a steam release from the csfp couldn’t happen or it could become more visible in the rain.  Webcam watchers don’t have any way to go back and get a grab; and the Time Lapse videos are no longer posted.   Kudos to elibi for posting an observation; it did look scary, here’s a grab.

   
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#42
That's some impressive shaking in your previous post on page 2, lasts quite awhile. I just looked at TEPCO's page to see if they had any reports about checking for damages, not yet. I think that could well have been a steam event, esp. with rain evidenced - heat meeting cooler wet air.... like pouring water in a hot pan on the stove.
Pia
Jitsi chat: enfo.pia@gmail.com
 
Reply
#43
https://www.sott.net/article/333660-6-2-...-of-Honshu
Quote:Tokyo Electric Power, the operator of the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant, is checking whether the quake has had any impact on the facility, Reuters reported citing Japan's NHK.

They will check for damages where they can see and report everything is fine.  Picked up my pencil off the floor but I didn't see any cracks in the floor under the carpet.  

The picture above in the rain was obviously a 'water caustic', that is, water on the lens blurring the view - if you watched for awhile; but at first glance, looked like it could be steam.  It's not so easy to tell in other instances, Majia asks if the steaming visible at night on cam1 is a 'water caustics' effect.  

http://majiasblog.blogspot.com/2016/11/b...ction.html

I've been wondering the same myself.  The steaming at that spot has been going on for a couple weeks now.  Several rains have come and gone that might have cleaned any smudgy, dusty dirty spot.  It's the same place as steam seen rising from the r3 pit or out the east side of r4 that's been reported over the years.  So, does a pool steam up every so often or does the lens get dirty in that spot every so often?
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#44
Quote:Horse

I've been wondering the same myself.  The steaming at that spot has been going on for a couple weeks now.  Several rains have come and gone that might have cleaned any smudgy, dusty dirty spot.  It's the same place as steam seen rising from the r3 pit or out the east side of r4 that's been reported over the years.  So, does a pool steam up every so often or does the lens get dirty in that spot every so often?

I think we will probably never. Seems to me, though, that this is where the IAEA ought be sending in special teams to investigate and report out. If it's ongoing re-criticality, we all need to know. Wonder what data CTBTO has.
Pia
Jitsi chat: enfo.pia@gmail.com
 
Reply
#45
Now, now, you know regulatory agencies have failed us and work for the industry.  That steam fog has been coming out of r4 for a long time, it may quit for a time but it's a regular feature.  The sparks are still flying.  HillbillyHoundDog found a nice double, jec and I found some pairs; lots of sparks in between.  Yes, jec posted a hello; still has limited internet.  I'm still wanting to go back and count some sparks I noted on 11-11.  

Here's the 10 minutes scanning for hhd's prize winning double. They looked like two eyes peering back at me out of the darkness.  

11-14 015908 spark double.bmp
11-14 020118 distortion 6f.bmp
11-14 020119 distortion end.bmp
11-14 020323 spark.bmp
11-14 020457 spark.bmp
11-14 020818 spark.bmp

Pics
11-13 200855 spark pair
11-13 205139 spark pair
11-14 015908 spark double

   

   

   
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#46
Photo 
A lot of crane movement today.

Man in white suit running on Unit 3.  Probably there less than 1 minute. 
   

Watching it live you can tell it is a person.
   
 
Reply
#47
Chasaha, great catch eagle eyes.  Since the US govt thinks americans can be exposed to radiation like NPP workers we should start getting govt supplied white Tyvek work clothes.  Two months airing out unit 1, Netc still showing elevated readings.  

   
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#48
Photo 
(11-16-2016, 04:54 PM)Horse Wrote: Chasaha, great catch eagle eyes.  Since the US govt thinks americans can be exposed to radiation like NPP workers we should start getting govt supplied white Tyvek work clothes.  Two months airing out unit 1, Netc still showing elevated readings.  

It really seemed to jump during the over-nite early morning hours on the Animated view.

Here's a screeshot of 2016-11-16  4 am
   
 
Reply
#49
(11-16-2016, 08:36 PM)Chasaha Wrote: It really seemed to jump during the over-nite early morning hours
Last week it was hitting Denver hard, the wind carries it eastward.  Could it be that events at Dai-ich two-three weeks ago are just getting to the US?  

I did get back to looking at 11-11 and found sparks up to rates of 20 per hour with less quiet time between bursts.  It was raining that night so maybe the higher spark rates was because of the rain bringing more fallout to the ground instead of it drifting over the Pacific.  No fancy sparks, most were plain ol’ sparks, but I included one spark pair from the night because it looked like one of the spark pairs above but on the other side of the screen.  Just wonder if different spark types are indicating different elements; maybe a strontium atom just winged by.  The three other spark pics are more to highlight the steam still coming off the reactors.  Notice the small steam clouds over r1 and r2.  Tepcam doubters might say its just another ‘water caustic’ and dismiss it.  Wind and atmospheric differences on the different nights have shifted the position of the steam clouds.  The dawn pictures of 11-16 show it isn’t a background sky cloud.  Long time webcam watchers usually say – more emissions visible.  

Pics
11-11 213023 spark pair
11-16 235615 spark
11-17 052744 spark 1f
11-17 053015 spark

   

   

   

   
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#50
Photo 
Zoom of the 2016-11-11 21:30 spark


Interesting!
   
 
Reply
#51
Thanks for adding that Netc Animated  view.  Those real close spark pairs was one reason I had trouble assigning colors to sparks.  Seen many of the blue-pink pair in the next pic, 11-16 235615 spark.

Added this link back to Cali's 10-05 observation six weeks ago when we started seeing sparking on both tepcams and tbs/jnn.  If sparking on three cams was an indication of widespread radioactive vapors; downwinders might get hit hard.   Not sure how long it takes for surface winds to move air from Japan to America.
http://caferadlab.com/thread-1527-post-2...ml#pid2860
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#52
Simply Info gives a hint of what burned in sfp4; Tepco’s unknown source.  
http://www.fukuleaks.org/web/?p=11668
Quote:It is assumed that most of the radiation releases were from units 1-3 out of the reactor with some potential from the spent fuel pools.
Unit 1 = 20% released (130 Pbq)
Unit 2 = 40% released (360 Pbq)
Unit 3 = 35.5% released (230 Pbq)
*TEPCO considers 110 Pbq of releases to have an unknown source and a total initial release at the plant of 900 Pbq

We saw Unit 4 smoking in the early days, no core in the reactor; it could only be the sfp.  Covered over, a fuel removal process started.  We saw the CSFP steam up every time a hot load from sfp4 was dropped in.  The steaming events and the reported numbers coming out of sfp4 didn’t always match.   Reported empty after a year, the CSFP steaming events continued on for another year.  The CSFP doesn’t steam up as much now, thus fewer of the webs of radioactive steam sticking to the camera lens.  Steam still coming out the side of r4 must be the fuel melt and broken rods still in that leaning, leaky pool.  All the Dai-ichi radiation readings we get to see are from ground stations; the emission plumes rising into the air are not measured except maybe by the spark activity on the tepcams.  I can hope the reactor melts are being kept cool in basement water but the spent fuel sitting in those pools are the biggest risk of further catastrophic releases.  Spent fuel rods should not touch each other.  The danger now is fuel rod assemblies coming too close to another and causing a criticality accident.  

Fuel Removal from Fukushima Reactor 3 Likely to Be Put Off Again
https://nuclear-news.net/2016/11/19/fuel...off-again/
Quote:It now appears difficult to begin the work in January 2018, as currently targeted by the company, the sources said. The expected postponement is due to a delay in preparations necessary for the removal work.

The fuel removal from the No. 3 reactor pool was initially planned to begin during April-September 2015.

Aug 1, 2015 Unit 3 sfp – The broken fuel removal crane that had fallen into the pool during debris cleaning efforts was removed from the pool.  That effort occurred during heavy fogging events and high spark activity.  The ENEnews webcam forum had quit functioning making my efforts to document the event more difficult.  Damage to the pool and the condition of spent fuel contents aren’t in the public domain.  I wonder if the delays are caused by whatever damage there is to the pool/contents.  

Search:  spent fuel pool zirc fires

Talking Points: Spent Fuel Pool Fires
http://www.nirs.org/wp-content/uploads/r...lfires.pdf

Investigations of Zirconium Fires
during Spent Fuel Pool LOCAs
http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1203/ML120380359.pdf
Quote:After five years, the potential for a zirconium fire is considered to be essentially non-existent due to the low decay heat level of the spent fuel.

ZIRCONIUM FIRES IN POOLS OF SPENT NUCLEAR FUEL:
HIGH-PROBABILITY SCENARIOS AND PHENOMENA
By Mark Leyse, Atomic Safety Organization
A Report Completed for Riverkeeper, December 2013
http://www.riverkeeper.org/wp-content/up...R-FUEL.pdf
Quote:In a SFP LOCA, partial fuel assembly uncovery would be a greater threat to safety than complete uncovery of the fuel assemblies.

Neutron-absorber materials are needed in the SFP storage racks that have densely packed fuel assemblies—high-density storage racks. Neutron-absorber materials are needed to help prevent criticality accidents; in fact, “new rack designs rely heavily on permanently installed neutron absorbers to maintain criticality requirements.”134 High-density storage racks also rely on the particular arrangements of discharged and fresh fuel assemblies that help to control reactivity in the SFP.  

Criticality accidents can occur when fuel rods get too close to another.  The studies assumed an undamaged pool that had no debris in them.  Tepco has to remove the debris without dropping a big chunk into a pool and damaging more fuel assemblies.  Another earthquake could cause more structural damage and leave a pile of fuel rods sitting out in the open with no easy way to control the nuclear fires.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#53
11-21 noted a few sparks 20:00, but 21:00 increased by double. Saw heavier emissions and noticed cam4 had that csfp fogging showing on the left side of cam4; clearing by 22:00.  Emissions seem just a little thicker each night.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#54
Photo 
Heavy rain, sticky goo drops.

Here's a quick simul-snap.

Cam compare.
Note -> Time Stamps.
   
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/f1-np/camera/index-e.html
 
Reply
#55
11-22 06:00 Big shaking on cam 4.  Looks like another EQ.

7.3

61km ESE of Namie, Japan

2016-11-21 20:59:46 (UTC)

10.0 km

Cam 4 EQ video




Cam1 is on an isolated pad but still showed shaking.  


"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#56
Photo 
There seems to be giant puffs of pink rising from 'the pit' area of Unit 3.

The ground appears to still be moving at times.  

If I was a worker there I would be headed for high ground with an extra Tyvec suit.
   

I'm guessing those rogue cores and the equipment that's supposed to try and maintain them don't like being shaken.
 
Reply
#57
All that shaking might have caused this spark on cam4 this evening.  

Pic
11-22 182228 c4 spark

   
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#58
(11-22-2016, 07:56 AM)Horse Wrote: All that shaking might have caused this spark on cam4 this evening.  

Pic
11-22 182228 c4 spark
HIya Folks  just got here,, heads up   stuff happening at FUKU cam 4
 
Reply
#59
(11-22-2016, 03:30 PM)vicky13 Wrote: HIya Folks  just got here,, heads up   stuff happening at FUKU cam 4

Hey Vicky13, Just got back, what's the happening? See some crane movement and a couple late aftershocks; little camera wiggles. Had rain and those webs earlier this morning. Good to see you posting. The aftershocks have to bother the workers there, not knowing when a little shake might turn into rock and roll.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
 
Reply
#60
(11-22-2016, 08:34 PM)Horse Wrote:
(11-22-2016, 03:30 PM)vicky13 Wrote: HIya Folks  just got here,, heads up   stuff happening at FUKU cam 4

Hey Vicky13, Just got back, what's the happening?  See some crane movement and a couple late aftershocks; little camera wiggles.  Had rain and those webs earlier this morning.  Good to see you posting.  The aftershocks have to bother the workers there, not knowing when a little shake might turn into rock and roll.

Hiya Horse,, nice to see you again. Yeah after Ene kinda died,, I got busy with other stuff and just lurked, because I was too busy to post replies and monitor ENE for replies.


WOWEE ya,, been watching the tepco cams with pure horror, seen quite a few nasty shakes over the time I was watching.

Saw a huge nasty web hanging off reactor #4  and got kinda alarmed. It went away pretty quick, I did get a screen cap of the web. That was what I was reporting in my post.

I will have to get sorted out again, figure out this new site you guys have setup,, looks fantastic so far,, GREAT WORK!!

Need to find a good free screen capture, the PC I used to record and post in ENE croaked so I am still rebuilding this new machine.

Any good tips for screen caps and recorders that are free or dirt cheap??  I still have dropbox, so I am good to share stuff again.

here is the screen cap of the web,,


Attached Files Image(s)
   
 
Reply
  


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  WEBCAM November 2017 Horse 14 687 2 hours ago
Last Post: Horse
  WEBCAM December 2016 Horse 55 17,162 01-01-2017, 09:31 AM
Last Post: Horse
  WEBCAM October 2016 Horse 52 23,454 10-27-2016, 07:41 PM
Last Post: Horse
  WEBCAM September 2016 Horse 62 22,799 10-02-2016, 01:00 AM
Last Post: Horse
  WEBCAM August 2016 Horse 44 18,498 09-04-2016, 04:06 PM
Last Post: piajensen
  WEBCAM July 2016 Horse 29 13,770 08-01-2016, 09:01 AM
Last Post: missFrill
  WEBCAM June 2016 Horse 49 20,354 07-01-2016, 03:34 AM
Last Post: piajensen
  WEBCAM May 2016 Horse 38 21,678 05-31-2016, 10:30 AM
Last Post: Chasaha
  WEBCAM April 2016 Horse 31 16,911 04-27-2016, 06:10 AM
Last Post: Horse
  WEBCAM March 2016 Horse 24 11,864 03-24-2016, 08:56 PM
Last Post: RodgerRoentgen

Forum Jump:


Browsing: 1 Guest(s)