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Is it too late?
A hard concept to grasp by humans that can just make shit with money. We have changed every aspect of millions of years of evolution on Earth. Every creature, every fungus, almost every microbe, has seen mankinds hand in some way or another. The air, the land, and sea, Earth, has been "updated" by humans. How can we evolve millions of years of biological evolution from just a couple hundred years of major human effect. We have changed everything that guided evolution of every species on the planet. We are changing the collective genome of life by this changed environment.

Tell me I'm wrong.
We always ask what have we done because we don't know what we are doing.

( We are changing the collective genome of life by this changed environment. 
Tell me I'm wrong.)

Jebus, You're wrong.   Sorry, Im sociologically programed to follow directives without question.

The question 'is it too late' isnt quite complete.  Is it too late for what?  Yes, its too late to have an undefiled ecosystem.  Its too late for millions of people who have died as a result of the nuclear industry.  Rosalie Bertell, former
 consultant to the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the US Environmental Protection Agency, and to Health Canada had estimated 1.3 billion people have sickened or died as a result of the nuclear industry

A remarkable number of my small group of friends have died since Fukushima at ages much younger than average lifespan, including a newborn from a brain tumor, and my sister in law just two days ago.  Cancers, leukemia and sudden heart attack in otherwise healthy people.   Of course, no cause and effect can be proven....or can it?   

"in relatively small doses (20-30 Bq/kg); a breach of the regulatory processes in the
body. This contributes to the emergence of pathological processes and diseases. 

The demographic situation in areas affected by the disaster at the Chernobyl nuclear power
plant is now catastrophic. "





Now what is the average bq/kg of Cs137 in N American populations?

Yes, its too late on many different levels.  

These birth defects might be linked with radiation from the Chernobyl disaster 30 years ago
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
Seems we have no patience for evolution to catch up. The unsuccessful birth defects in nature are binned.
No one notices. Mutations happen anyways, they say. No one cares, the symbiotic ecosystem is too big to fail.

We always ask what have we done because we don't know what we are doing.

“It’s not a technological or a scientific problem, it’s a question of humanities’ socio-political values…"
"We need a social tipping point that flips our thinking before we reach a tipping point in the climate system.”

Can we think in new ways about the existential human security risks driven by the climate crisis?

Paper download link page
We always ask what have we done because we don't know what we are doing.

We had already wiped two cities, punched holes in our atmosphere, spread plutonium everywhere and created new radiation belts around the planet by the time humans reluctantly created the first Earth Day. I helped plant a tree. I was in jr high. My reading was mostly science fiction. The future was obvious...

The Sheep Look Up - John Brunner.
We always ask what have we done because we don't know what we are doing.

Too late..to rewrite the algoritme of One species..?

Apart from our nuclear "mistake", creating and setting loose with a irresponsible selfisch cavalier style only a instant profit seeking algoritme, or a human mind reduced to that, do without hesistaciens , 2000 or something new isotopes unknown to the Universe, let alone the biomass..on said biomass.

The oceans are saturated with heat and acid..can no longer work as schockabsorbers..have to get rid of their own surplus of imbalances first..

Record-breaking heatwaves on both sides of the finite planet and everywhere in-between..

Also this..


Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
HELP! err.. HEMP!!! 

Addressing the Climate Crisis, Worldwide Reforestation and Industrial Hemp
The Cheapest Way to Save the Planet Grows Like a Weed

Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
It seems that if humans do not get their priorities straightened out, not much else will matter except survival...

The Arctic’s on fire and now it’s going to be hit by a heat wave

Unprecedented wildfires are currently raging across the Arctic Circle, with some the size of 100,000 football fields — so big they can be seen from space. Arctic sea ice is moreover already running at a record low this year; scientists worry a heat wave will only further exacerbate the area’s problems.


So Much of the Arctic Is on Fire, You Can See It From Space

Since June, more than 100 wildfires have raged across the Arctic, which is especially dry and hot this summer. In Russia alone, wildfires are burning in 11 of the country's 49 regions, meaning that even in fire-free areas, people are choking on smoke that is blowing across the country.


Maybe we will be just in time...
We always ask what have we done because we don't know what we are doing.

The Planet Earth.....is just an industrial mine and farm for a few rich homosapiens.  Where you draw the line between the exploiters and the exploited is up to you....1/1000 of a percent...or 99 percent,  but the result to the earth and the other inhabitants is the same.

The earth is not a magical, vibrant miracle of life, alone like a lighthouse, a beacon of sentient life in the vast reaches of lifeless space.  No, its a corporate resource, fully exploited for profit.  The forests are not  symphonic masterworks crafted by time and the living hand of nature.  Those have been cut down.  The oceans are no longer the majestic kingdoms of life ever flowing....they have been poisoned, polluted and the inhabitants eaten.  

The pristine ice caps are pocketed with toxic radioactive holes of fallout and soot. 

40 percent of the world’s total land area is agricultural land,  (7 million square miles used to grow crops, and 14 million square miles used to raise livestock.)   The carbon dioxide liberation into the atmosphere by man is less than the sequestration lost by cutting down the forests.

Do we hear a great cry to reforest the land, stop the growth of the human population, seek some harmony, if at all possible, with the land and animals?   No, saving the earth is couched in the vernacular of carbon tax.  Any bug could tell you that a tax is not going to be enough to save the animal kingdoms.  

Civilization is like one big human pyramid,  a few at the top, carried by the masses below, suffocating in their lives of drudgery.   The money system has made the majority into paupers.  At one time...not long ago in the history of the world,  man was free to live upon the earth like all the other plants and animals.  Now he must pay someone to stay in the small allocated space.  How much did it cost dolphin and blue whales to live in California?  How much rent do the sea otters and seals pay to live off San Francisco?   The median house price in San Mateo is $1,600,000.   

The people are blind.  Indoctrinated.  The many are controlled by the few and easily.   Nobody can see that the entire civilization amounts to a prison like work camp.   90% of so many animals can be killed or die off and nobody cares.  Genetically engineered pine trees are planted in rows.   Cows are harvested in vast numbers as if by hideous heartless bloodthirsty aliens from another planet.  The so called leaders are psychopathic yet cheered on by the public.  The planet is truly a science fiction nightmare.  All the more freakish because the people are proud of it

People line up in two rows to vote for their leaders.  What a sham grotesque parody of civilization.  We are smart enough to see that the monkeys and birds brains are shrinking significantly from nuclear fallout, but too dumb to think it isnt happening to us.    The living world is collapsing at a terrifying rate, the animals driven from their habitat to make room for cattle farms, the insects poisoned,  the fish trawled and plasticized,  the orca starved...masses of animals washing up dead.  

Of course there is climate change....the plankton is replaced by plastic, the clouds are not born from fresh seas and vibrant forests,  the land is drying out and blowing away.  The snow is blackened and poisoned.  The living world is sick.  The biggest stock market bubble in the galaxy about to burst into a sea of misery, war, starvation, disease and death

[Image: c46-eucalyptus-plantation.jpg]
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
Extinction is Stalking Humanity

Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
My vote is, yes.

Just trying to be realistic. Tell me I'm wrong.

Decomissioning and waste storage: The act prior to the dropping of the other shoe. Welcome to the new age, kids. There's a future in it for you! (?)

France is heating up. And shutting down. Or not, whichever...

A kid shared what they thought of the cross they bear with the mess we left. They're here, to remind us.

With permission:

Too sad..what fools we where and the generations before us..

That We have to learn from our children that understand the horrors of the reality they inherited from us..hand to hand delivery over countless generations of enslavement by addictions and delusions...oops..last one..sorry my child..the bill has fallen togheter right now..meaning the world/your future..is falling apart..you won't have the same confort we had to live a omnicidal selfish lie and invent dogma's that makes one proud while doing so as long as the worn out blindfold holds on against the mounting warning sign's..it seems, "in hindsight", we should have ripped the blindfold of sooner..
Sorry again..onwards..i have a few bombs to sell..a few bribes to collect..a few children to.separate and a few fans to keep blindfolded/to demagogue. 

If there will be any life/love-spark at all..for you to share, receive and recycle..

Every 400 years or so the selfsustaining living cardhouse of symbiotic balances gets a stiff workout from the sun/cosmos..when the coherence is strong and diverse..no problem.. 
Just an exercise.. 

But now..desintegrated and sold-out..collapsing almost on its own.. 


Credit to vital for this great thread.. 

Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
Glyphosate Worse than We Could Imagine. “It’s Everywhere”
Glyphosate residues have been found in tap water, orange juice, children’s urine, breast milk, chips, snacks, beer, wine, cereals, eggs, oatmeal, wheat products, and most conventional foods tested. It’s everywhere, in brief.

Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
In the mail

No rebate
Is it too late
Lose tape, deny case, save face
Is it too late, voided futures incarnate
Is it too late, buttressed fates relocate
Sold the bait, laid bare for all, told to wait
Is it too late, planetary rape
Is it too late, food desert plate
Birth rate checkmate, dose rate downstate, radiate intrastate
Is it too late, plastic people spate
Is it too late, metabolic dysfunction state
Oceans asphyxiate, genomes abbreviate, species dissipate
Is it too late, daughters disintegrate
Is it too late, invertebrate/vertebrate mutate
Fabricate to instigate, implicate the immigrate, obfuscate a data rate
Is it too late
No debate
Speaking of icebergs, temperatures in Greenland are as much as 15º C above normal. [For Americans, that’s equivalent to 27º F.] Officials in that country estimate over 12 billion tons of water from melting glaciers flowed into the ocean on August 1, representing the highest rate of glacier melt ever recorded

"In the past, climate change seemed like a problem for the future -- bad things would happen, maybe, but not until like 2070.
That was wrong. 
Today, Greenland is melting at the rate once projected for 2070..."

Exponential..Exponential speed of the falling togheter of consequences/bills.. a difficult concept to grasp for those in stabil ignorance aka fragmented perception..especially if that narrowed perception is the result of " The algoritme of instant profit" spell/CURSE..


Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
Quote Horse


"HiDude, I'm glad to see you talking about the Oceans, there are so many problems hiding under the surface. After reading your posts, I read an article about a remote island, a bird sanctuary. Scientists wondered why the birds were eating so much plastic, when the birds should know the difference between food and plastic. Struck me as dumb that scientists didn't consider that the Ocean wasn't full of fish food anymore. Instead of pointing out Fuku's fallout, radioactive tsunami debris, and the ongoing contamination we hear about climate change.   

Blaming CO2 is an agenda, not science. The sun is the primary driver of Earth's weather patterns and the sun is going into a Grand Solar Minimum cycle that will cause more extreme weather. When the crops on land start failing, we could have reached into the Ocean for food, but alas, something is depleting that resource. Dude, I think things are gonna get worse for the little guy, rocks on the road. Notice the mass migrations as life seeks out better climes. They don't see the radiation hazards surrounding us.  

I don't mind if we start the next chat in the Lounge so guests can read some of the chit-chat. "

I agree Horse. http://caferadlab.com/thread-2243.html

But to me, it's not about blaming.. 
Our gasses and their pollution do not belong in the planets inhale/exhale looping cycles. Just like all other of our planetary pollution and destruction, or summorised..our multyleveled synergistic attack on the symbiotic coherence/glue between all interconnected dots of the planetary bio-matrix.. Planet + Bio-Mass as it evolved.. 
Destroying its self-sustaining defense capability, flexibility and regeneratif powers..imho
Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
Some of our gasses and pollution are worse than others.  The CO2 problem could easily be repaired by planting more trees and greenery.  Krypton-85 is changing the conductivity of the atmosphere and we have no easy way to remove the vast amounts that we've been adding.  Tritium is just radioactive hydrogen, H feeds life but H3 destroys it.  For me it's about identifying the pollution that we need to worry about and not be misled by the popular science put to the people.
"The map is not the territory that it is a map of ... the word is not the thing being referred to."
scientists and the media are stuck on a one track theme of global warming.  There is discussion that this could be an actual agenda to impose geopolitical control and profit 

Even if those are only 'conspiracy theories', there is something obvious; the myopic fixation on Co2 is simply unscientific.  It is a grotesque perversion of science.  How much of this is due to the limits of the human psyche is hard to say.  Are scientists simply swept up in the fashionable fixation of carbon dioxide, and unable to see the lack of integrative thinking?

They tie everything to Co2 including the leaky faucet.  At the same time, they (media and media release from scientists) ignore, deny or even disparage other factors.  They give the impression that the science is undeniable that anthropogenic Co2 is the cause of climate change and the impending collapse of civilizations.  The public, and the great percentage of scientists and science students believe this.   The result is a powerful emotional bias, reinforcing a fixation on a single factor, Co2.   

Even the term 'greenhouse effect' is a misnomer.   But besides the complex relationship of carbon dioxide and climate, there are other potentially much greater causes of climate. Cloud cover is one of these.  Cloud cover is poorly implemented in climate change models with a huge uncertainty.  The causes of cloud formations are complex, involving everything from plankton to forests to cosmic rays.   

The huge alteration of the planets biosystems by man,  with a large toxicity aspect is the huge factor absent from the media and scientists.   Deforestation, defaunation, and massive poisoning by thousands of chemicals, fertilizer runoff and plastics pollution represent the huge knockout blow to a viable earth.  Co2, whatever its significance turns out to be, is by comparison, an essentially non toxic and essential trace gas of which man releases a small part

Scientists and the media have failed us.  Its dissapointing, in this era of critical need for rebalancing mans impact on the planet


lack of clouds is now the leading cause of the increased melting

New research shows algae growing on the Greenland ice sheet, the Earth's second-largest ice sheet, significantly reduce the surface reflectivity of the ice sheet's bare ice area and contribute more to its melting than dust or black carbon.

Weather pattern changes over Greenland may account for melting, storms in Europe

Phytoplankton Population Drops 40 Percent Since 1950

The phytoplankton decline, is there anything to it?
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout
Quote Horse :
Some of our gasses and pollution are worse than others.  The CO2 problem could easily be repaired by planting more trees and greenery.  Krypton-85 is changing the conductivity of the atmosphere and we have no easy way to remove the vast amounts that we've been adding.  Tritium is just radioactive hydrogen, H feeds life but H3 destroys it.  For me it's about identifying the pollution that we need to worry about and not be misled by the popular science put to the people."

I understand your reasoning, and I definitely don't want to take away importance of impact in the short or long run..of so many other potentially fatal attacks..simultaneously happening.. 

I agree they should reforest, And Fast, but I differ a bit on "The CO2 problem could easily be repaired by planting more trees and greenery"..

The oceans (bigger then plantable biomass IMHO) are already saturated with heat and acid..from that little industrial revolution it speeded up to what we have now and.. 

"The Sun is going into one of it's quiet periods. The historic records show the Sun goes into a Maunder type Minimum approximately every four hundred years. We are due for one, and there have been a lot of research paper releases recently that are pointing to us entering the "Beginning'"! one of these events."

Meaning..double our triple whammy for our atmosphere..heat and what not coming from above as below..the triple being us not responding and choosing leaders so corrupt it smells foul far behind the heavens..
Drooling while making agreements behind closed doors who can drill where for what when all global Ice or/and Amazone or/and all regulation except zionisme/apartheid is gone.. 

Recently we had 41 + something celsius in my country that was called" frogcountry" when I was a child.. 

 I got accidently headbutted by a lady passing out from the heat I tried to break her fall with one arm.. 

Next year 50 Celsius..then 70..? Exponentially and all that with no planetary immune system or schock-absorbers or basic running engine left.. 

Not sure we should ignore one attack in favor of the other..just saying. 

Extinction foretold.. Extinction ignored.. 
Dude; "Not sure we should ignore one attack in favor of the other"

I agree with that!  Science and the public are very myopic.

Can reforestation solve the Co2 additional release by humans?
What are the biggest environmental problems?  What are the largest climate drivers?

If we go higher than the 2000 ppm of the Jurassic period,  that could be trouble!  it could be noted we were near the lowest survivable level of Co2 there for a while.

[Image: image277.gif]

Its perhaps reasonable to recall that mankind is releasing only about 4% of the Co2.  There are proclamations that the increase is totally due to mans doing.  But that is a complicated issue.  Historically, Co2 followed, not preceded temperature change.   Now it seems either simultaneous or reverse.   In such a complex system,  deductions of how much Co2 is coming from humans can be wrong.   Anyway, lets say man is responsible for the total increase.  Can reforestation offset it?

Man has cut down about half the forests.  That is more co2 sequestration lost than man puts out.  

The answer to slowing the destruction of the biosphere will involve multiple actions.  The toxic pollution is a major deal.  The deforestation and desertification is big.   Overpopulation of course drives all of this destruction.  

“This new quantitative evaluation shows [forest] restoration isn’t just one of our climate change solutions, it is overwhelmingly the top one,” said Prof Tom Crowther at the Swiss university ETH Zürich, who led the research. “What blows my mind is the scale. I thought restoration would be in the top 10, but it is overwhelmingly more powerful than all of the other climate change solutions proposed.”

Restoring forests may be one of our most powerful weapons in fighting climate change
Adding 2.2 billion acres of tree cover would capture two-thirds of man-made carbon emissions, a new study found.
we are healthy with background radiation but unhealthy with the same dose from fallout

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