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Thread Review (Newest First)
Posted by Code - 10-11-2019, 06:56 PM
" Vital1 posted a great video 'No Safe Dose" just the other day"

Goffman spearheaded that idea of no safe dose.  All the anti nukers get behind it.   But how powerful a message is it really?  If the fallout is at background levels,  then even if there is no safe dose, its such a small level, it is essentially safe.  Or so they say.   Lets be clear;  the mainstream dosimetry says there is no safe dose...they use the linear no threshold model.   So whats the difference?

If background radiation is found to be essentially safe,  and there is quite a bit of evidence for this, especially the potassium radiation,  then the entire burden of radiotoxicity is due to fallout.   No longer could they compare fallout to background, saying "even though technically there is no safe dose, the nuclear fallout is at background levels and therefor no real concern, the stochastic possibility of harm lost in the noise"   


Except for medical use,  the background dose of radiation has not gone up very much at all.  This is a mistake often made by anti nukers.    The largest internal background, from potassium, has not gone up at all due to nuclear industries.   The danger is not in the dose, the danger is in the radio toxicity

So even though they mean well,  using the 'no safe dose' meme is not very effective.  Its obviously much more incriminating if you say there is a safe dose of radiation but it is not  nuclear fallout!  to strengthen their case, the anti nuclear movement should emphasize the difference between nuclear fallout and normal background radiation, rather than unify them. 

More info on the safe dose thread here

http://caferadlab.com/thread-3582.html
Posted by Code - 10-11-2019, 06:40 PM
I often hear anti nukers wonder about all the unreported radionuclides, as if that may hold the key to the observed toxic effects of Fukushima.  They suspect more and ongoing cover ups about the quantity of radiation.   One hears statements like  "we are fried"  from radiation.

These ideas miss the point.

the fallout is a super toxin. The levels may be very low.  The energy level  of a very toxic dose is vanishingly small, like a butterfly falling off a sugar cube.   Just a few atoms per cell average is already a dose of biological significance.  Its very hard to imagine how this could be,  when for example there are millions of radioactive atoms per cell naturally in your body. 

44 μg/kg of caesium-137 was deadly in dog experiments. That is an acute dose.    I calculate that is about one cesium atom per every 300 million atoms of tissue.   The population of the U.S. is about 300 million.   So imagine one person so toxic they could kill the entire U.S. population.  

There are more atoms in one cell than there are people in the U.S.   so  in fact this acute dose is  370,000 cesium atoms per cell.   Its a minute fraction....well 1/300,000,000    but even a much smaller dose is toxic.   Just a few atoms per cell.  

 A visualization is that the Cs137  is like the tiniest sliver....have you ever had a microscopic metallic sliver? You cant even see it but it is very painful.  The area will get red and swell up....even though you cant even see this tiny sliver in your finger.   On a cellular level, the Cs137  is doing something similar.  it disrupts the cell membrane and a slew of messenger molecules induce a biological reaction.   Cytokines send an alarm to other cells.   This is nearly like an allergic reaction. 

 The alarm goes out and now your body is even killing cells not touched by radiation...the bystander effect.   There is inflammation and your entire metabolism is affected.   This is from internal exposure.  So probably there are bioaccumulation factors that create local hotspots.   In fact the cesium accumulates in your heart muscle and nerves.  The ECRR has it that this internalized fallout is 300 to 1000 times worse than mainstream dose models say it is.    That is the disparity.  It is a dramatic disagreement

This is radiotoxicity,  it has nothing to do with the chemical toxicity of cesium
Posted by Horse - 10-11-2019, 05:39 PM
I'm told that this site is too anti-nuclear.  Vital1 posted a great video 'No Safe Dose" just the other day,
http://caferadlab.com/thread-3714-post-9...ml#pid9721

The mainstream publishes the safe reading.  Leading scientists with medical backgrounds disagree with the "scientific consensus".  If every pro-nuke site posted your thread or the video, they might have an honest debate too, instead of just being pro-nuke propaganda outlets.  They're welcome to come here and have a say.  They'd like to keep radiation as invisible as possible or they'd need to implement more controls on radioactive contaminants.  They could do more to safeguard our health.

Background radiation was natural until they turned it into a man-made nuclear trashcan.
Posted by Code - 10-11-2019, 04:37 PM
That cesium effects thread is some of the most powerful anti nuke info anywhere.   Thanks goes to Yuri Bandazhevski.   One wonders why the entire anti nuke community ignores it.  It represents years of study by an expert in biology.   Its the key.   It ends the debate

I noticed some redundancy though.   post 8 is a compilation.  It could be deleted

The important graphic is in post 3.  every anti nuke site should repost it. 

and by the way, what good is a geiger counter which reads "safe dose"  when in fact there is a morbid dose of cesium in your muscles,  disrupting your entire metabolism?   What good is "scientific consensus" when the vast majority have it wrong?

http://caferadlab.com/thread-3642-post-8...ml#pid8985
Posted by Horse - 10-11-2019, 03:50 PM
HHD, I deleted post #143. Yeah, I'd like to keep moves, changes, etc. known to all concerned. This isn't my own personal blog, I tend to think of it as the member's board. I liked the administration of that other website and thought to implement that here, especially with opening to public input. Got a few more members I'll probably trim out, still investigating. Three are from Pakistan with no posts, IPs are safe, will probably just delete the members but not ban the IP, so a legit person could still join in again. After clearing out spammers I can see we have lots of lurkers, regular visitors keeping an eye on CRL. That's encouraging. Well, at least we know the report button works now. I always wondered if it worked at ENE. Its good to see more participation from members. Thanking Earthy, rthsmth, out loud for that phrase I needed for the new description box at the bottom. Thanks for all the help.
Posted by Guest - 10-11-2019, 02:48 PM
And thanks, Horse. Really nice to have you. Awesome, actually.

HHD
Posted by Guest - 10-11-2019, 02:46 PM
Horse, that admin from that one administrative website we saw gives public notice when a post is moved or censored, also, FYI. Good call.

Yes, DUDe and Horse, the requests were for a few of my posts regarding nuclear that I felt better placed accordingly- and one of Horses. Cool, the report button allows you to note the reason for report. Just testing the water...

You asked for clarification on another, Horse. Later, then...

Onwards, kind folk.
HHD
Posted by Horse - 10-11-2019, 09:26 AM
Okay, I'll check here cause I remember seeing some a couple pages back. Won't spend much time looking, t'would help if you linked to threads where they might be.
\\
Done, check PM.
Posted by DUDe - 10-11-2019, 09:12 AM
"Hi DUDe, only one admin, singular, wanna volunteer to help out? Kidding. Posts are only soft deleted, meaning I can restore them if so desired. You have several that you deleted, but I still see them. I don't think HHD was talking about your posts in this case."

Hi and LOL for the j/k Horse , but that's interesting you still have copy's of what i deleted in reflex etc..could you send them to me please..maybe with/after some corrections i could make even restore them ?

Not sure i will ask for the latter , maybe i just reuse some parts of it in later blabblars lol , but a copy would be nice because indeed i think i diddent save those first..that would be awesome thanks !

DUDe
Posted by Horse - 10-11-2019, 08:02 AM
Hi DUDe, only one admin, singular, wanna volunteer to help out? Kidding. Posts are only soft deleted, meaning I can restore them if so desired. You have several that you deleted, but I still see them. I don't think HHD was talking about your posts in this case. I'll try to remember to send you a PM copy of deletions I might make. That's a good practice I can implement easy enough. Posts may get moved to different threads, trying to keep things organized, you'd be notified about that too. Keep your posts clean and sober and I won't have to censor or edit them.
Posted by DUDe - 10-11-2019, 06:56 AM
Hi admins..if in the event some of my post's have to be deleted..would it be possible to send me a copy by pm first in case its one i diddent save already in my docs myself..i like to keep an eye on the flow that passed tru me already..

Thanks.
Posted by Horse - 10-11-2019, 03:02 AM
Yes, those were the first mod reports, I've gotten. Freaked me right out wondering what the heck. The Mod reports take me to the first page of this thread, and I couldn't figure out what was up. Then I saw the new post in politics thread so I'm guessing you copied a post there and want me to delete the original post #143 on this page?
Posted by HHD - 10-11-2019, 12:30 AM
Horse, I moved some posts...copied over, anyways. I used the report button to highlight them for deletion, if you like.
We're those the first "report"s you've received?

Practice. Haha?
Posted by Code - 10-02-2019, 08:43 PM
I have continued on the Oct thread.   

But that link

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/09/30/...ojections/

"What I find troubling, though, is that there is this a demand from many in these demonstrations for governments to “do something.” Which is extraordinary given that it is these very governments, at the behest of the corporations and the military industrial complex who run them, who have caused our crisis to begin with. "

and then...

"And it is this very quality that has been seized upon by the wraiths of capitalism. Those rotting cadavers in suits who are in the business of marketing to save their status and wealth. This is evident in the fact that they have put Greta on the cover of magazines like Time, GQ and Vogue. It is why she gets interviews with Christiane Amanpour. It is why she is seen in photo ops with the fossil fuel, fracking, drone-loving and polluter friendly President Barack Obama, who merely wants to promote his foundation. None of this is to say she agrees with these powerful actors or entities, but they do not view her as a threat as of yet. On the contrary, they see her either as a ratings boost or an asset to their personal aspirations."

really?  Vogue Obama and Amanpour etc etc  create press spectaculars with Greta simply because she is no threat?  Thats ridiculous

Which leads me to wonder,  whats the point of ridiculous dialogue like that?
Posted by DUDe - 10-02-2019, 06:48 PM
Veritable Uprising or The (Faux) Real Thing™: Greta and Climate Activism in a Wilderness of Projections

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/09/30/...ojections/

HHD thank you..that was all activist's..so above as below..resonating..
Posted by HHD - 10-02-2019, 04:23 PM
DUDe it is then.


https://dissidentvoice.org/2019/09/how-d...al-action/
how-dare-you-the-climate-crisis-and-the-public-demand-for-real-action
Posted by DUDe - 10-02-2019, 03:11 PM
I get it , lol sry it was me..lost in details..forgetting to sign..

"..I would call you Guest, which means I could be talking to myself, for all I know... "
Posted by HHD - 10-02-2019, 02:42 PM
Guest:"Hi HHD , same old immorality , now hyjacking the new good initiatives..for the same old bancaccounts or something , i guess.."

Guest, "hyjacking the new good initiatives", agreed. Focusing on the politician rather than the politics is another new age past time.

If you don't leave a signature, then when I reply to you, I would call you Guest, which means I could be talking to myself, for all I know...
Posted by Guest - 10-02-2019, 02:02 PM
No advantage, just old computers. I was using Google Chrome for things that need it. CRL doesn't have ads and so isn't vulnerable to the most common attacks and I can use IE.

"Spammers would like to be members because they can use the boards functionality to share files, pictures, movies, and private messages. They've redoubled their efforts to get back in. I've had to work at keeping them out. ."



Thanks for all the hard work to keep this place clean Horse...Smile
Posted by Horse - 10-02-2019, 01:14 PM
(10-02-2019, 12:20 PM)Guest Wrote: Lol rthsmth..so true.

Horse , is there a specifick reason to still use IE nowadays if i may ask..don't answer if that makes crl hackable lol , but i thought most people use alternatives..just curious..whats the advantage ?

No advantage, just old computers. I was using Google Chrome for things that need it. CRL doesn't have ads and so isn't vulnerable to the most common attacks and I can use IE. I need more tabs open than fit in one browser, so I use both. It was my error browsing the web with IE when I clicked on that link, I haven't had any problems besides slow load times for sites with lots of advertising so when I saw the popup, I was just being cautious in disabling that link.

CRL hasn't been hacked, just spammed. Spammers would like to be members because they can use the boards functionality to share files, pictures, movies, and private messages. I've been locking CRL down so they can't do that anymore. They had it good here for four years. They've redoubled their efforts to get back in. I've had to work at keeping them out. Another got thru the challenge question today. I'll probably have to change that again too.
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